i want a new drug!
All these recent tragic events have me at a loss as well, and the one that still haunts me the most are two lil children safe in the arms of a protector who decides to suddenly run out onto the interstate taking all 3 lives. A mother drowning her three infants in a bathtub, Columbine, Mucko, and Virginia Tech...and now this recent tragedy in Westford makes me wonder if this guy was taking the same psyche meds that the others were all prescribed....
Psychotropic medication seems to be the common denominator in all these ugly events....
Rx Meds don't help those who are depressed, it kills them! and figuratively speaking, it kills me to watch and read about these terrible stories and the families destroyed who are now seeking litigation and answers from anyone and everyon except from those who are truly responsible.
Norvatis, Pfizer, Amgen, Merck, Proctor and Gamble, and Johnson and Johnson....
they are your guilty party.
The economy is in the tank, folks are out of a job, people are losing their homes, companies are going bankrupt.....
But the aforementioned corporations are seeing billion dollar profits, and all the while the people who are popping their brain candy are killing themselves, their children, their colleagues, their fellow students, and even total strangers.
I wonder if folks on Capital Hill even care, i'm certain that a billion dollar a year industry doesn't...
Maybe there is some rouge element of our government that is behind all this? maybe Congressmen and Senators are being paid off in order to allow such crimes to happen? Perhaps even an Administration created to protect us from the Food(s) and Drug(s)we have access to is somehow connected to all this murder and mayhem?
ahhh, I'm reaching. I'm just being paranoid, perhaps i suffer from some new sickness that requires some kinda medication....
stay sharp!
2/4/2010 11:42:29 AM
I couldn't agree more. Great post.
2/5/2010 9:38:48 AM
I couldn't agree less.
2/6/2010 12:23:18 AM
Why Juice?
2/6/2010 2:57:02 AM
The meds are a treatment to what is already a potentially dangerous condition.
Before the current meds many that were severe cases became wards of the state and never released back into the public.
The biggest problem is that not all meds react the same to each person. To know that they need to be observed as it takes about three days for the drugs to become absorbed in to have any effect.
Very few will agree to submit themselves to such observation as many are already mentally ill and refuse to accept they are ill to begin with.
Forced committed is one way of monitoring that treatment to find out which drug works best but to be forced you have to be deemed life threatening to yourself or others.
Unfortunately what is cited above are situations that the people around them had no idea what to do because people that are ill have an increasing build and escalation. Only if you had dealt with it before would you know what is happening and know how to get an ill person to accept they are ill and seek treatment.
Tim McVeigh, Dave Karesh, etc... if you compare their behavior up the point in which they flipped you would see it was text book case of mental illness and it's progressions.
2/6/2010 7:44:48 AM
That makes sense.
2/6/2010 8:19:47 PM
The problem is that once you're on that stuff, it's tough to be weaned off of it. To stop taking it abruptly can be disastrous.
From what I've seen though it does help people if they stay the course.
If Jaco Pastorius took his meds and stayed away from the booze and dope, he'd more than likely still be with us today.
As horrific as all those murder/suicides are, that incident on 495
really takes the cake.
2/6/2010 9:04:52 PM
Norvatis, Pfizer, Amgen, Merck, Proctor and Gamble, and Johnson and Johnson.
I just sent resumes to all those places.
2/6/2010 9:16:54 PM
Gary,
Are you out again or just shopping around?
2/6/2010 11:15:55 PM
Let's be careful before we start maligning taking pills
some folks view that as their recreational activity
me, f'rinstance
2/6/2010 11:27:56 PM
Trust me Joe.
Nobody put anything in my head.
2/7/2010 8:13:13 AM
Joeg I agree that they are medicating too many people these days, but the ones who commit these crimes really are sick. When someone is truly messed up in the head, drugs might actually help them, and might prevent these episodes. Maybe the wrong drug could do more damage, but the drugs themselves don't cause the underlying illness.
The lady with postpartum depression/psychosis was suffering from a real disorder when she killed her babies.
2/7/2010 8:26:45 AM
Let's be aware that the video Joe posted is put out by the CCHR, which is the Church of Scientology. It is designed to promote their religious agenda. It makes a few good points, but I think the real truth lies somewhere to the left of that
2/7/2010 9:58:02 AM
Here (if you can spare the time to watch) is what Scientology believes:
youtube.com/watch?v=t7eeombbi...Here is a known scientologist (Tom Cruise) commenting on Psychiatric medicine.
youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262...If you feel that advances in modern medicine hasn't proven to be a benefit to mankind then when you personally develop diabetes, Chron's disease, Bi-Polar disorder, Alzheimers or any numbers of health related issues then become a Scientologist. Has there been abuse? Absolutely, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
2/7/2010 10:31:01 AM
Tom should do himself and everyone else a favor and stick to acting.
2/7/2010 7:14:59 PM
oh i forgot to mention,
some high school girl killed herself the other day because she was being bullied at school and on facebook........what the article in the newspaper forgot to mention was that she was taking Zoloft.
stats don't lie,
the data available that confirms the connection between homicide/suicide and psyche meds is there.........
but there are billions of dollars at stake if that info gets out.
2/7/2010 7:51:44 PM
Joe,
Some people are irretrievably fucked-up and will be beyond the help of drug therapy. It does work for others though and there is proof of that as well.
This is not the kind of situation to be making blanket generalizations about.
2/7/2010 8:15:27 PM
oh yeah, so your ancedotal evidence proves you right...case closed then Perry Mason.
2/7/2010 8:15:32 PM
Clueless.
But if all you seek is the title to spout "King of all Mental Illness"
Be my guest.
There are probably some meds you should be taking because obviously you're not.
2/7/2010 8:57:29 PM
It's great to have ya back Juice!!!!!
2/7/2010 9:51:59 PM
over the last 25 years the suicide rate in teens has skyrocketed...
over the last 25 years the number of teens on psyche meds has skyrocketed......
and finally...........
over the last 25 years, the number of teens that have killed them selves or killed others while on these psyche meds has skyrocketed.......
i'm convinced.......
2/7/2010 10:09:41 PM
"Skyrocketed"
Now there is a term that says it all.
You should be selling these drugs.
2/7/2010 10:59:12 PM
wow!
Tom Cruise is crazy!!!!
But even a broken clock is right twice a day..........
2/8/2010 4:29:21 AM
well Swanee,
with the exception of "Bi-Polar" the other 3 conditions you mention are serious health concerns........not to be taken lightly.
my argument is against millions of people swallowing a pill every day for a psychological condition that i believe doesn't actually exists....a 9 year old boy on Ritalin? a 13 year old girl on Prozac? a 45 year old man on Ambian? and a 30 year old woman on Xanax?
c'mon....here is a my cure for anyone who tells me they suffer from "depression" or "bi-polar" or ADAD, or ADHD, ...or whatever the hell quacks are calling it these days.........simply get off ya ass and eat better, exercise, sleep right, perhaps the occasional blow job, all of which have been medically proven to release stress and normalize brain chemistry, unlike Rx medication.......
but I'm sad to report that my cure will get me thrown in jail for practicing medicine without a lic. and my cure isn't a billion dollar a year industry.......
i have no argument with people seeking psycho therapy, in fact an hour a week with a shrink can be very therapeutic for mind body and spirit........but a Rx for someone who "THINKS" they suffer from some mental disorder is whats crazy!!!
2/8/2010 7:27:07 AM
What a shocker! Joeg shooting his mouth off about something he has noooo clue about. Talk to some people who have kids who take these meds and talk to them about their conditions and see if all they need is "perhaps the occasional blow job". Fucking ignoramous!
For someone who is involved somehow with MIT, you're pretty fucking ignorant!
2/8/2010 7:36:00 AM
Joe, seriously, do you know anyone with bi-polar disorder? It can debilitating and I have seen its effect firsthand in good friends and some family. Have you ever suffered from clinical depression? Telling someone who is depressed to cheer up or "get over it" is like telling someone with bronchitis to just stop coughing. It's not that simple.
You can't just color this one topic with one sweeping generalization, it's a really ignorant thing to do.
2/8/2010 7:40:17 AM
There is some real middle ground here that should not be ignored.
joeg made it but he mixed it with so much infuriating stuff that it got lost a bit.
Drugs are dispersed far too quickly in this country. All drugs, but the drugs he's mentioning are more serious, so the results can be more alarming.
There was a great Simpsons episode that satirized the problem (from the kid angle) with my favorite quote ever. It's the one where Bart is said to have Attention Deficit Disorder and prescribed "Focusin".
"It's about helping kids concentrate. This pill reduces classclownism by 44 %, with 60% less sassmouth, the only thing more effective is exercise"
I know plenty of people who have benefited (in my estimation) from these drugs. Lives that I had almost given up on, actually turned around by the responsible use of these drugs that can give a person a "time out" from self doubt and self loathing long enough to straighten out some of the everyday problems that mount up and prevent someone from even considering the big problems.
Having worked in the public school system, I've seen and heard about horror stories where parents are forced by the collective to put their children on mind altering drugs or face being ostracized and sent to a different school or special class etc. The public school system seems to love these drugs more than anyone. I find it frightening, because I bet a lot of those very same kids who would have been called hyper and kept after school more often in the old days went on to become some of our most creative artists, musicians, and eccentric mathematicians and scientists. I just have a fundamental problem with chemically altering minds that aren't fully formed yet.
Of course I'm not saying that no kid should ever take a drug, it's a tough call to be made by the only people truly responsible for the child, their parents. I just hate it when society (especially a government agency like the board of education) puts pressure on parents and stacks the deck without showing the possible downside.
And I don't blame drug companies either! I have no doubt they believe in their products and therefore should have no guilt about "pushing" them. I just want the buyer to beware!
Diet and exercise (like in that Simpsons episode) are too often not even considered, or are even the punchline!
Before you disagree too harshly with joeg, ask yourself the question: As a country, do we over medicate, or under medicate? Especially in regard to our children? Would our country be better off if everyone ate right and exercised, or if everyone just took a pill?
Sweeping generalizations are conversation starters, without them, no one would pay attention to a topic.
2/8/2010 9:33:16 AM
Oh Jebus I'm sorry for the length of that one. I need a freakin' editor.
2/8/2010 9:34:03 AM
When my kid was in elementary school they tried to force their fuckin Ritalin on us.
You know me. I went down there and gave them hell.
During the "discussion," with the school psychologist, the principal, and the teachers, where it was 5 of them against me, I noticed that on the table was a paperweight.
It was from Pfizer pharmaceutical company.
I held it up and said "Well, isn't THIS interesting!"
That shut 'em up for a bit.
2/8/2010 9:43:45 AM
I say don't drug up the masses, but when someone is acting weird, suicidal, or homicidal, get them to a hospital! Don't be stupid.
2/8/2010 9:55:28 AM
Kenny!
i have friends with similar stories!
the pharmaceutical industry pays them, wines and dines them, even sends them on vacation all in an attempt to push their product..yes, some schools and doctors even have quota's they need to keep, .......they don't care that the drug kills, all they care about is making billions.
2/8/2010 10:59:15 AM
I'll attempt to answer this one, for fear of more of the same; but say what you will about my "ignorant" opinion...... I’m not listening to you.
I know quite a few people who think they have bi-polar, and have been led to believe this because some shrink said so, .....i also know quite a few people who get depressed on occasion, as i do, life can be difficult sometimes, but there is a big difference between being depressed and suffering from "depression", the latter does not exist.........but there is no money to be made in the former.
the blow job comment was a joke......but i assume you just enjoy any opportunity to challenge my words. Perhaps you should ask ya doctor to up ya meds….
the industry knows that these drugs are causing all this mayhem, they know it........and they don't care! they don't care!
the people working for FDA are investors........and they are getting rich as soon as the FDA approval is granted, the stock goes up, and who is investing? they same people about to approve it.
bloodletting, electrocution, and lobotomies.....all experiments, drugging is the new experiment, anyone taking a psychotropic drug is a human guinea pig!
There is no science behind Tx, it's all theory....no bloodtesting, no CAT scan, no evaluation, because there is nothing there and the doctors know this.
the data on Prozac was proven to increase suicidal tendencies, and was removed from the shelves.......today it's called "Sarafem", same drug, different name...
I’m convinced……….but if wanna blindly swallow (or force your children to swallow) following the opinion of a person who can offer you no scientific data, and produce no test results that explains to you your condition other his/her opinion based on what you are reporting, then it is not I who is the ignorant one…..
2/8/2010 11:27:46 AM
Why oh why do we take the bait? Joe has already clearly pointed out he likes to stir the shitpot.
I for one ain't doin it no more....
2/8/2010 11:29:54 AM
I meant "ignorant" as uninformed...not as being rude. Until you have suffered from real depression, overwhelming, life-halting, want to jump in front of oncoming traffic depression, do not dare say there is no such thing.
I'm done here though, because I broke my own rule of not arguing with someone whose opinions I do not respect.
Swoosh.
2/8/2010 11:46:23 AM
oh swanee..........
I'm just posting to the lowellrocks "political" message board. I'm not stirring the shit pot, this is my conviction, and I'm attempting to share it with my fellow lowellian rockers......
shall i offer my opinion on the Massachusetts welfare system instead? or perhaps we should explore the mysteries to the church of Rome? maybe dabble in the abortion issue? gay marriage? social security? the war?
what would you like to discuss?
be careful "apathy" is soon to be labeled "motivationally challenged" by the APA and remember once they label it, they can market a drug for it and make millions
the list of human emotions have been renamed by a bunch of whacko's and the drugs are available in every size shape and color.......
shy people = anxiety disorder
rambunctious kids = ADHD
sadness = depression
nervousness = post trumatic stress disorder
fear = blah blah blah phobia
oh the list goes on and on
happy and sad in the same day = bi-polar
2/8/2010 11:47:27 AM
i barbie, i assumed you meant ignorant as "uninformed" i have no issue nor am i upset by that,
i understand the thoughts and desires to wanna jump in front of oncoming traffic.......i'm human, i have been on the edge.and i know this, the wrong pill Rx by a doctor will make people actually jump.
People get depressed.........."depression" is a theory, happen to simply disagree with that theory.
2/8/2010 11:52:26 AM
I agree with Joe...He's spot on!
2/8/2010 1:15:39 PM
Yes Joe we know, we know....your omnipotence is do be admired, not admonished because you simply know it all.
You come here, light a fire and then fan the flames with your rhetoric and anecdotal evidence all in the name of fodder for your next blog or radio show.
Game over man.
2/8/2010 1:25:13 PM
"We still don't really know much about how Ritalin or Dexedrine or Adderall work," Dr. Xavier Castellanos tells FRONTLINE. The head of ADHD research at the National Institute of Mental Health, Castellanos freely admits that much remains unknown about the nature and cause of ADHD. "The problem is," he says, "we're searching in the dark and don't know where that clue is going to be."
This lack of basic understanding about the nature of ADHD concerns some parents. Others are concerned about the role played by pharmaceutical companies, which have not only provided financial support to ADHD advocacy groups such as CHADD (Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder) but also paid physicians to make speaking appearances to raise awareness of ADHD. Such support, critics claim, is an attempt to boost diagnoses of ADHD--and thereby drug sales
Yeah, hook 'em up!
2/8/2010 1:25:24 PM
It's not that black and white Steve, and what private industry ISN'T in the business of making money????
2/8/2010 1:26:52 PM
"On Point" with Tom Ashbrook on BUR was debating this very (or similar) topic Today. (without the histrionics) check it out!
onpointradio.org/2010/02/do-a...I don't know if the audio is posted yet, but they always do.
2/8/2010 1:32:52 PM
Michael, it's an opinion. Sorry if it doesn't agree with yours.
2/8/2010 1:44:25 PM
swanee writes: It's not that black and white Steve, and what private industry ISN'T in the business of making money????
Yeah Mike, but they're going to make $$ with MY kids as guineau pigs. These are adult medications they're giving to kids.
2/8/2010 1:47:45 PM
I just think there needs to be more understanding about how prescription medications do help people and less dialog about Pharm companies...of course they're in it to make money, and so are car manufacturers, Chain Retail stores etc.
I'm sure there is overperscribing, misdiagnoses and bascially doling out happy pills to people who simply ask their doctor for them but I know people who genuinely live better lives day-to-day because of advances in medication.
2/8/2010 1:50:24 PM
Swanee,
i posted my opinion on the political message board........omnipotent? light the fire? fan the flames? rhetoric? fodder?
i'm just offering my opinion and hoping others will share theirs...why all this negative attitude towards me from the things i say. after all we are facebook friends!
i also think the things i have to say here are no different than anyone else..unfortunately most people here don't know me all that well so it's easier for them to make themselves feel better by lashing out at me.......and that's fine.
but the biggest issue folks have with me is everything i write is written as the absolute. it's a neat lil trick i learned from my bible study days in Sunday school..
but aren't we all right about the things we have to say? isn't you're position on a subject the right opinion?
lets take Abortion for instance; i'm sure you have an opinion on that subject........and isn't your opinion "right", and isn't those who disagree with you wrong?
be well.........and don't take any of those pills i'm railing about, they will mess you up!
2/8/2010 1:50:51 PM
"after all we are facebook friends!"
You piss me off and they you gotta go post something that makes me LOL!
....but perscriptions meds aren't absolute and nobody is forcing anybody to take anything they don't want to take so by taking a position that says basically if you or your kids are taking Psychotropic medication that you're more inclined to do something irrational. You stated 3 instances where people on meds did some bad things but how many people were spared because someone was TAKING a controlled perscription in an effort to curtail irrational behavior?
2/8/2010 1:58:16 PM
oh don't get me started on car manufacturers.
Toyota recalled all those cars after a month long study suggests that it'll be cheaper than paying the lawsuits from those that are gonna/or have already died.
year ago, Ford opted to just pay the lawsuits (and let people die) from a faulty automobile.
letting people die was a solid business decision, can ya believe that? big pharma thinks the same way.......let them die!
so........Toyota looks like a company that cares, but what they actually did was simply weigh the difference. if it would have been cheaper to payout from being sued they would have went that way.
now back to pills that kill!
2/8/2010 1:58:27 PM
...and how many times do we hear on the news after a tragedy like the ones you listed above where they interview friends and family who say "he/she was doing really good until they stopped taking their medication recently"?
2/8/2010 2:00:29 PM
"nobody is forcing anybody to take anything they don't want to take"
c'mon Swanee........the gen/pop are suckers, and people who market this stuff know that, couch potato are fools for anything that flashes in front of them........i had a snickers bar today for the first time in months, that Betty White commercial made me do it.
2/8/2010 2:01:25 PM
Interesting thread.....I happen to agree with Mr. Ayotte...He made some valid points...All I will say is that meds are not always the answer; However, when they are needed, they need to be regulated and prescribed for each individual correctly not just because...I have seen first hand how the wrong meds can ruin someone's life...On the other hand, I have also seen that, when meds are prescribed correctly, they can open up a whole new world for the patient...
It is a shame to see health care institutions and some parents use medications as a type of babysitter...
2/8/2010 2:03:51 PM
adverse reaction to the withdrawal of the meds.........they would have been fine if they never took'em in the first place.
i could walk into a Dr. office tomorrow and with out any blood work, x-ray, CAT scan, or evaluation..... walk out with a Rx for any psyche med i want, all ya gotta do is ask your doctor if zoloft is right for you, and he'll say hell yeah! and if ya freak out on them, just come back and we will try a different medication, and that drug makes ya wanna kill ya kids, perhaps we should try this drug instead........and so on,
2/8/2010 2:05:40 PM
Read your second paragraph again Joe and then read this with me slowly...
nobody is FORCING ANYBODY to TAKE ANYTHING they don't want to TAKE!
2/8/2010 2:05:48 PM
"nobody is forcing anybody to take anything they don't want to take"
This is totally INCORRECT....Sorry to say I have seen it first hand where the patient is given medicine that they should not be taken but are told to take it without a family member present of course !!
2/8/2010 2:06:50 PM
P78!!!
It is a shame to see health care institutions and some parents use medications as a type of babysitter...
agreed!
parent and teachers are so stressed out these days they would rather dope their kids than deal with them....and in walks the shirk with all the answers
2/8/2010 2:08:00 PM
swanee,
that Betty White commercial made me do it.
2/8/2010 2:09:00 PM
Yes there are extreme cases where an individual is so severe that a family member needs to be their health care proxy but those are the ones being discussed here Wayne.
Nurse Ratchet? Where are my pills...???
2/8/2010 2:10:14 PM
joeg,
joeg made joeg eat that Snickers.
2/8/2010 2:10:50 PM
aren't being discussed....sorry.
2/8/2010 2:11:21 PM
"adverse reaction to the withdrawal of the meds.........they would have been fine if they never took'em in the first place."
This is just an ignorant statement Joe...Sorry to say...........Meds do work IF they are prescribed properly..Seriously my friend...
I will give you this..I HAVE seen a doctor prescribe a med over and over again just to get his 25 dollar co-pay..So, for me,a really interesting topic..I get to see some of the views of other LRers on this subject....
2/8/2010 2:14:39 PM
There was a study done once to if there really was a "fat" gene. a group of 100 people were studied, they were offered the same treats at the same time of the day...things like ice cream at bedtime, all you can eat pizza for lunch but also healthy choices like fruits and vegetables.
Anyway, they didn't find the fat gene in the people who gained weight but in the ones that did not gain weight they found the willpower gene.
2/8/2010 2:16:15 PM
"It is a shame to see health care institutions and some parents use medications as a type of babysitter...."
Sorry Swanee, I read the initial post where Joe gave an example of the parent drowning her children...I also was not merely speaking of a 'severe' instance either...I used an example of an average person that needs meds to be able to live a happy and fulfilled life...I think that covers part of what this thread is about. Doesn't it? If I am wrong then I apologize....
2/8/2010 2:23:54 PM
Fair enough Wayne, I'll meet ya halfway!
2/8/2010 2:26:03 PM
Thanks Swanee
2/8/2010 2:28:00 PM
SOME meds can work for SOME people. The biggest problem is that the mental health care system doesn't give a shit about the people that they are supposed to help. I was married to a man who was diagnosed with schizophrenia on our first wedding anniversary, I was married to him for 15 years. He was on dozen of different meds over the years - most of which either did nothing or made him worse. The doctors ignored him (and me) when we told them the problems he was having, they just said "keep taking the pills and eventually you'll be better". He attempted suicide many times, he finally succeeded in 1994. After he died I was a mess for quite a while, sad, "depressed". My doctor tried to put me on an anti-depressant, I asked him if the pill would bring my husband back - he said no. I told him to shove the pills. The medical establishment is not much more than a bunch of legal drug pushers. Try watching any tv show and count the drug commercials. It seems every other commercial is either for drugs or junk food - make us sick and then give us a pill to fix it!
2/8/2010 2:50:27 PM
It only follows that a topic such as this would spur-on such heated dicussion. :-)
2/8/2010 3:48:30 PM
just ducky....again i am convinced.....and sympathetic to your experience.
be well
2/8/2010 3:48:35 PM
have ya heard or read the possible side effects from these drugs? they are laughable......and then you die!
suicide, aggression, irritability, violent behavior, nightmares, irregular heartbeat, anxiety, drop in blood pressure, stroke, headaches, blurred vision, insomnia, diarrhea, nausea, high fever, shakiness, skin rash, heart attacks, mood swings, and even depression is a possible side effect........can ya believe that, "depression" is a side effect of an anti depressant drug!
and then you die!
2/8/2010 4:02:32 PM
I was just reading an article on cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/mediterranea... the point that a mostly Mediterranean diet can help prevent dementia (along with cancer, heart disease, diabetes..) This particular line jumped out at me: "It would be easier for people to focus on adding particular elements to their diets -- for example, by taking fish oil capsules -- rather than trying to readjust their eating habits altogether." Of course! People don't want to change their eating habits, they would much rather just take a pill.
2/8/2010 5:54:28 PM
if 50 sit ups and 35 push ups came is in a tiny lil pill it would be the best selling pill on the planet...........
2/8/2010 8:57:44 PM
I don't know, I've seen a lot of demented Mediterraneans.
2/8/2010 9:43:48 PM
So, if kids only had a better diet, they wouldn't need the drugs?
Puts a whole new spin on the phrase "Cuckoo for Coca Puffs"
2/9/2010 6:27:37 AM
al,
diet is a possible fix,,,coupled with better sleep habits, and exercise.......
the kids are drinking Soda, and eating Bigmacs all day long while playing video games and then complain they have a headache or are feel dizzy and tired when it;s time to do his home work.
poor diet, lack of sleep, and no exercise can/will cause a depressed human state, and can even lead to other psychological conditions. but before anyone can just eat an apple, take a nap or a walk.........they choose the magic pill,
and then they die.
2/9/2010 10:10:17 AM
Joe you say kids are doing this, but how? How can kids be doing this? Children are minors, our society doesn't grant that level of permissiveness to children.
Explain that to us and you'll have more answers than questions.
2/9/2010 10:28:31 AM
How can kids be doing this?
what? eating and drinking junk? playing video games?
and what questions do i have?
2/9/2010 10:34:28 AM
"Maybe there is some rouge element of our government that is behind all this? maybe Congressmen and Senators are being paid off in order to allow such crimes to happen? Perhaps even an Administration created to protect us from the Food(s) and Drug(s)we have access to is somehow connected to all this murder and mayhem?"
Those questions, but my broader point prefaces your above presumptions in that you seem to connect the lifestyle of the majority of children today to the spike in kids being perscribed Psychotropic meds. Who's forcing those kids to eat Big Macs? Who's buying them those video games? I know my kids don't suffer from either lack of sleep or a poor diet so who are these kids that you speak of? Are they yours, and if not then how can you make some of the assertions you've been making?
I have an idea...you seem to be a grassroots kinda guy and a pretty good organizer to boot and I think you've implied you've got school age children, why not start an afterschool program for kids that involves exercise, nutritional information and homework tutoring.
After all, you've got time to do a radio show, write a blog and book shows...certainly you must have time for the children?
2/9/2010 11:16:20 AM
FEAR NOT!!!!
The president announced Today he is setting up a task force on child obesity, so the problem should be solved soon.
2/9/2010 11:21:41 AM
Have they announced the new fat kid Czar yet?
2/9/2010 11:23:33 AM
It may be the First Lady, I'll check.
2/9/2010 11:25:20 AM
Yup, the first lady is the Tubby Tot Tzar
2/9/2010 11:27:30 AM
swanee,
i think we know the answer to those question(s), Big Pharma and the FDA along w/ congressional committees all on the same page allowing these drugs to be available to the public, pushing them, marketing them.....yeah, we know that answer.
are parents partially at fault for dope-ing their kids? yes! i would agree,
and i do have school age children......who are no different than anyone else kids, what i won't do is entertain the idea of offering them a drug to control their mood or behavior.
they are just kids.
start an after school program? hmmmmm, you must know more about than most, i did tutor high school kids back in the day, and i've actually spoken to classes at the grade school level about the dangers of drug and alcohol use. of course it's been years since i've done that, before i had my own family,
i wish i had more time.
2/9/2010 12:33:26 PM
I did quite a bit when I was a younger parent...I was on their school technology committee, did volunteer work at the YMCA with kids, and I still do work with the Special Olympics. I also currently host internships for kids trying to get experience in the world of Graphics and Design.
My kids are grown (18 and 20) but my step children are 6 and 9...I haven't missed one of their performances or parent teacher meetings and we play mostly board games instead of watching TV most nights. Both of these kids are off the charts academically and I like to think it's because we limit most of the ills that you characterize as being the catalyst for Prozac nation. Hey, I not saying they don't get some Spongebob or a Cheeseburger from time to time! It's all in moderation but in my house we use a system called Token Economy....look it up, our parents used it successfully for years.
SImply put (and it's the answer I was trying to elicit from you), it's not the FDA not the Pharm companies...it's the parents.
2/9/2010 1:12:31 PM
Swanee: "I know my kids don't suffer from either lack of sleep or a poor diet so who are these kids that you speak of." I'm not making any assumptions about your kids or your parenting, I'm just using this statement to make a point. When you say your kids don't suffer from a poor diet, are really sure about that? Just because they don't drink sodas all day or snack on bags of chips and candy bars. There is a lot more involved in a really good diet. Do they eat only whole grains (100% whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, brown rice), only healthy fats (olive oil and canola oil), a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables every day, limited red meat, several servings of fish every week, very limited foods from restaurants (all restaurants, not just fast food). Most people in this country don't following this kind of eating plan. If you eat out in ANY place (McDonald's, Subway, Olive Garden, a mini-mart, Applebee's) you are not getting a healthy meal. You are not getting whole grains, or healthy fats, or a healthy amount of sodium. The food companies make it extremely difficult for people to even buy the best foods from the supermarket. The labels lie and do everything they can do make it confusing. Take Keebler whole grain saltine crackers, they use caramel to make them look brown, they contain almost the same of amount of salt as “whole grains”. There is a huge difference between “contains whole grains” and “100% whole wheat”. How about ketchup? Every tablespoon of ketchup contains 2 teaspoons of sugar (actually high fructose corn syrup). One Tablespoon of mayonnaise has more fat than a Boston Kreme donut from Dunkin’ Donuts. Again, Swanee I am not accusing you of anything, I am just trying to make the point that if you ask most people if they, and their family, eat healthy they will answer yes. With the obesity levels at what they are, somebody is lying (even if just to themselves). A big hurdle to overcome in fighting childhood obesity is that for a parent to confront their child’s weight problem, it’s very likely that they will need to take a look at themselves first.
2/9/2010 1:48:05 PM
swanee,
agreed, parents are the first to make the choice, to dope or not to dope........
and Kenny,
if ya still with us on the thread! i have seen those same paperweights and pens, and pocket calenders, and key chains, and note pads on many a high school principles desk. they are even at the college level.
they get them at the Pfizer all expense paid conferences they attend at big city hotels!
the next time ya find yourself in the same office ask ya kids principle where they got that paperweight, and then ask them how often do they suggest to parents that putting their child on one of these drugs is the answer......
until that kid comes in and shoots the place up killing schoolmates, teachers, and even the principle, before blowing off his own head.........yeah, that's a great answer!
stay sharp people,
this is the end of my political rant on Rx dope, up next we'll discuss the Abortion issuse.......and if ya ask me
i think a 16 girl ability to terminate her pregnancy should just as easy as it is for her to get a pack of smokes at the local 7/11
2/9/2010 2:15:00 PM
Many parents happen to accept a 'professional' opinion IF their child acts up in school or does not focus. In some case this may be a true problem but in most cases it is just a child acting like a child...Sometimes it takes the parents to push back a little and not go the route of medicating their child rather get to the bottom of the issue IF there is an issue at all..In some cases a good old case of parental discipline does the trick...
The 'professionals' are not always right...I have seen it first hand...Also, there are a lot of outside pressures that can affect a child...Yeah we can look up whatever article and say 'See this is what the solution is..." BUT each individual is different as is each situation...This is a tough subject to analyze let alone determine which opinion is right or wrong...Interesting thread...
2/9/2010 2:39:07 PM
I must add that there are cases in which medication does help the child in which that is a good thing for the child...
2/9/2010 2:41:12 PM
Just wanted to point out that the Dave Karesh thing was the fault of the US Government. Sure he was a religious nut, but there was no clear evidence that he was an eminent threat to anyone. I'm not sure how i feel about psych meds. If i was thirteen, me and my stupid friends would probably start a metal band called "MUCKO".
2/9/2010 4:11:08 PM
Just Ducky....admittedly (if you read my post about the occasional burger!) no, they don't eat perfect in the sense that you define. Unless your Jack LaLane or a pro bodybuilder you don't care about how much sugar is in a tlbs. of Ketchup.t I'm am willing to wager they are in the upper 10% though. They ask for (are not forced) for fruit everyday for a snack, they don't like soda of any kind and insist (again, not forced) on a salad or veggie with every dinner. My stepdaughter will cut up a fresh carrot to snack on and my stepson's favorite snack is whole wheat Wheat Thins. They don't care for mayo and if they really wanna splurge we'll give them a sugar free popsicle.
Life is a balance JD and we go out to eat once and a while and enjoy our T-Bones steak, Chili's burittos or Applebee's chicken fingers but life is a balance and we like to keep it that way so the majority of our daily lives is in pursuit of that balance.
Hell, I just came back from a 4 mile run and had a nice smoothie!
2/9/2010 4:13:20 PM
a teenage punk rock band called "Mucko"!!! with an updated cover of "White Punks on Dope" as an encore!!!!!
nice
2/9/2010 4:30:56 PM
Swanee...like I said, I was not calling you out specifically. I totally agree with you that it's all about balance. What I'm trying to say is that because food labeling and the media make it very difficult for the average person to understand good from bad food. My comment about ketchup and mayonnaise is simply that so many people don't know facts like that. Even if you don't think it's necessary to know how much sugar is in something, there are people whose very life depends on it (not just Jack LaLane). Considering that each American east approximately 156 pounds of sugar a year, it is a growing (pun intended) problem. Obviously you are aware of good nutrition, exercise and you teach that to your kids and set a great example for them. The problem is, you are the exception, not the rule. I try to keep a balance, I love a good bag of chips and some beers with a football game, I’ve never been known to turn down a free shot of Cuervo when offered; I’m also just starting my third round of P90X. Since I have changed my diet, I find I can’t tolerate any white flour at all. This makes it next to impossible to eat any foods that I don’t cook myself. It’s also made me become an expert of food labels. It frustrates me that they are not more clear.
2/9/2010 6:55:49 PM
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