Demented scales, altered chords, modal madness...

Morganic writes:

For those folks who think beyond the usual pentatonic scales and barre chords, what interesting stuff are you working with or thinking about?

Our band VERTICAL MODE has several pieces that utilize modal scales (Phrygian, Lydian, etc.) and even one that uses the "Demented" scale -- mixing Diminished and Augmented together freely (a sure sign of the impending apocalypse!)

An altered scale that I'm partial to is the Lydian b7 scale, which you can get on a piano by playing the white keys G to G and substituting a C# for the C. Very useful scale that has some interesting features...

11/21/2009 6:01:20 PM

Morganic writes:

...such as, it contains TWO tri-tones instead of just one.

And if you build modal scales using it you get some very interesting results. And more than a few minor 7b5 chords.

11/21/2009 6:04:25 PM

Morganic writes:

And, if you start on the b7 and play ascending to the #4, you get a whole tone scale. If you then play from the 3rd up to the root, you get a diminished scale (alternating 1/2 & whole tones.)

Neat, huh?

11/21/2009 6:07:03 PM

Morganic writes:

Or maybe I'm just easily amused...

11/21/2009 6:07:37 PM

Matt Fetters writes:

You lost me at "pentatonic scale".

11/21/2009 6:25:49 PM

CrazyCat writes:

Oh, I get it. JZ mistakenly posted his reply on half-diminished chords under the hitch hiking thread instead of here.

11/21/2009 7:20:55 PM

CrazyCat writes:

Wayne, I used to use that kind of scale exclusively in many of my improvisations. I first became intrigued with the half-diminished scale in 1977 when I was studying the music of the Russian composer Dimitri Shostakovich.

The notes comprising the scale can all be found in two diminished chord/arpeggios juxtaposed one half step away from each other. the scale is also referred to as "whole-half" as in C,C#, D#,E, F#,G, A, Bb and has eight notes rather than seven.
Other interesting features of this scale are the chord symmetries it avails, notably minor third symmetries.

11/22/2009 4:51:55 AM

JimZaroulis writes:

Which is why it is called a symmetrical diminished scale.

11/22/2009 9:50:59 AM

Mike Valeras writes:

Also the term "altered" is used very specifically in Jazz Harmony. It doesnt just refer to an exotic mode other than Ionian or Aeolian. It's 1 3 5 b7 b9 #9 #11 b13.

11/22/2009 10:10:57 AM

artek writes:

Nerds.

11/22/2009 10:22:52 AM

JimZaroulis writes:

Even 1,000 miles away he can SNAP, BOOM, TICK!!!!!

11/22/2009 10:27:00 AM

CrazyCat writes:

I don't know why I started calling it that. Must be the whole half whole half thing. Technically though, a Locrian scale is referred to as half diminished. It's called half diminished because it has the b5 and the 7th but is missing the minor 3rd.

Do the math Arte! You too Ken! :-)

11/22/2009 11:48:01 AM

Morganic writes:

No, Locrian does have a minor 3rd (B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B) B to D. It's basically the same as Phrygian, but with a flat 5th (1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7) and the tonic chord is our friend, min7 b5.

11/22/2009 12:07:36 PM

CrazyCat writes:

Wayne you're right. I'm was "half" asleep when I wrote that.

Diminished is root, minor 3rd, b5 and 6th (not 7th) So Locrian is missing the 6th (or 13th) and not the 7th.

So from that standpoint it is "half" diminished.

But that link I provided above shows that the symmetrical diminished scale is also sometimes referred to as "half-whole".

11/22/2009 12:15:13 PM

Mike Valeras writes:

Locrian is not missing a 6th. As Wayne accurately pointed out in his example. It uses a b13.

11/22/2009 1:33:17 PM

CrazyCat writes:

Alright then a major 6th dammit!! You know what I'm talking about.

Call it whatever you want: #5 or b13...

11/22/2009 1:51:22 PM

CrazyCat writes:

or a minor 6th.....

11/22/2009 1:53:04 PM

Morganic writes:

Actually, Locrian is the mode I use least, although it certainly has some possibilities.

The Diminished (whole/half) scale actually works well starting with either a half or a whole step. Give it a try when you feel like playing some rather disturbed sounding music.

11/22/2009 2:57:12 PM

CrazyCat writes:

Lydian is cool to work with with the #4. Dancing Days by Zep is built on a Lydian mode.

11/22/2009 3:22:14 PM

Gary Smejkal writes:

I'm a Phrygian guy myself...

But, I use flatted feet when I'm wearing my Uggs

11/22/2009 8:01:08 PM

BEEF writes:

you guys make me feel stupid
cut it out

11/23/2009 9:20:29 AM

Matt Fetters writes:

I prefer the chromatonic scale. It is a major scale with chromatic mixed in.

11/23/2009 9:59:55 AM

Matt Fetters writes:

I used to be excusive with the mixupcrapian scale.

11/23/2009 10:02:20 AM

Carl Ayotte writes:

You guys aren't musicians, you're mathematicians! ;-)

11/23/2009 10:02:24 AM

Matt Fetters writes:

But if it sounds good to you then use it .....right?

11/23/2009 10:03:16 AM

Matt Fetters writes:

Anybody ever use the blues scale?

11/23/2009 10:04:20 AM

Matt Fetters writes:

Or mixing scale notes with arpregos?

11/23/2009 10:05:28 AM

Carl Ayotte writes:

All I need is a cheap ebay sax, 5 notes, and the truth.

11/23/2009 10:07:05 AM

Purple Frog Popsicle writes:

LOL... Mixupcrapian scale.

I only use that one when I'm in intoxicated mode.

11/23/2009 10:28:30 AM

P78 writes:

'All I need is a cheap ebay sax, 5 notes, and the truth. '

"YOU can't handle the truth......" What movie?

Great thread for someone who is just starting to figure out scales and theory...Thnx

12/4/2009 12:44:19 PM

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