LOL - Democrats CAUSED THIS MESS... Grab your ankles.
bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=ne...But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.
Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.
Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.
There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.
Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.
9/22/2008 11:58:51 AM
they are all full of sh*t.
Both candidates have track records of good and bad - supporting the right things and wrong things... voting one-way or another.
As someone else so eloquently put it in another thread:
"My candidate is right, the other is wrong. What my candidate says about the opponent is true and exposing them for the fraud they are, what the opponent says about MY candidate is a pack of lies and twisting of the truth."
Both sides have JUST as many truths and lies about each other and depending on who you're "for"... you'll believe what you want to believe. Facts are only facts if the whole story is told.
I have no ammunition to agree or disagree with this rhetoric anymore because every time I try to look-up "facts" on certain topics... there are almost always two (or more) ways the story is told - both share factual information, but paint the picture with a different slant.
I watched a REALLY good program the other night on CNN... it was a sort-of round-table discussion with former secretaries of state - attempting to bypass partisan discussions and discuss what THEY would advise the president of on day-1.
It was a great lineup... James Baker, Madeleine Albright, Warren Christopher, Henry Kissinger and Colin Powell. Good to hear that they almost all agree on MANY topics - regardless of party affiliation. Was refreshing to hear ACTUAL political discussion - not trash-talk and party-bashing.
Found it:
cnn.com/2008/politics/09/16/s...
9/22/2008 12:12:40 PM
I wonder if it's on YouTube already...? :)
9/22/2008 12:12:57 PM
obama has a track record...
PRESENT!
9/22/2008 12:16:40 PM
*sigh* - that's my point. So many people are easily swayed by things that are irrelevant in the big-picture. On BOTH sides... not just one.
There are just as many stories poking MAJOR holes in both McCain and Palin... there are plenty of sources of facts that dispute almost everything Palin says... so...
It boils down to who you *WANT* to believe. I cannot change your (collective, not "Millhouse") mind to see the hypocrisy both sides spew. I am tired as all hell of BOTH sides picking on "facts" that when taken from context and manipulated, are used to defame that person - instead of merely concentrating on where the nation currently is and what they plan on doing about it.
The notion that either candidate believes the other's position is LONG GONE. It's PART OF THE GAME for both sides to discredit the other now... so it's a "wash" at this point. They are both going to take a microscope into each-other's pasts... pull-out tid-bits of information that can be spun into a bigger deal than it is.
The fact that *WE* fall-for-it is appalling.
I don't believe McCain is an idiot that's going to run things the way Bush did, and I don't think Obama is so inexperienced that he's going to be rendered useless in that position.
Whichever I vote for, will have nothing to do with the rhetoric.
9/22/2008 12:25:13 PM
Your right Scott, that why I move we to start a dictatorship.
9/22/2008 12:29:53 PM
More to the point - REGARDLESS of what either puppet says... after watching the CNN show with the former Secretaries of State... NO MATTTER WHICH ONE WINS... they are BOTH going to be briefed by people who (hopefully) have MUCH better insight as to what's going on in the real-world on Day-1 and I am willing to bet that the course of action taken at that point by EITHER candidate are going to be VERY SIMILAR - regardless of what was promised pre-election.
History has proven time-and-time again that campaign promises mean almost NOTHING, it's what happens when the rubber hits the road. I've seen enough footage of presidents (BOTH parties) where they have shown campaign promise footage, then follow it up with footage of them doing exactly the opposite of what they promised.
It is GOING to happen, no matter what.
So - at this point... What puppet do YOU feel is going to make a better "spokesperson" for America...?
:D
9/22/2008 12:34:06 PM
good question.
I vote....
PRESENT!!!!
9/22/2008 12:45:55 PM
ME TOO!
9/22/2008 12:47:41 PM
stubborn bah-stid. :)
9/22/2008 12:47:52 PM
I'll be back later but right now I have to go organize my community, you know....fix a few parking tickets and pinch the metermaids hineys....stuff like that.
9/22/2008 12:55:46 PM
That's why it's high time for a valid effective third party in this country. It has to start somewhere and I'm drawing the line this year...if I can find one!
9/22/2008 1:22:44 PM
no, it's not high time.
you want to throw your vote out, go head.
High Time was a long time ago for a valid effective 3rd party.
that bus came and went this election.
9/22/2008 1:53:12 PM
I'm not convinced that "another party" is the solution.
Election reform overall may be necessary.
And/or a change in the way the media reports "facts".
But neither will happen.
9/22/2008 1:59:56 PM
ThatGuy, did you read the article? Are you commenting on the topic of this particular thread, or the election?
There is a difference between an opinion piece, and researched reporting.
This is not Hannity and Combes yelling at each other, this is a well documented article on our current financial problem. Knowing the cause is the only way to avoid it happening again. Especially with the White House, and Congress, all ready to spend a whole lot of your money to possibly put what could amount to a trillion dollar band-aid.
I believe if you disagree with something in that article, by all means, tell us what it is and jack it up with the kind of reporting that went into the article.
I've got to admit that I'm getting tired of all these political threads getting hijacked into being just stupid back and forth with all rhetoric and no fact. This thread seems to be about a certain article and the information it has uncovered. (or, reiterating since none of this was a secret, and many warned that this would happen)
9/22/2008 3:51:48 PM
Yes, I read it.
"Take away Fannie and Freddie, or regulate them more wisely, and it's hard to imagine how these highly liquid markets would ever have emerged. This whole mess would never have happened." -Purely speculative.
And you're right, I am hijacking the thread in a way. I clearly see where if a DIFFERENT approach were followed by the Democrats, there MAY HAVE BEEN a different outcome (nobody can tell for sure) - but what IS certain, is that it happened, and that at "ONE" point in time, there was a decision by the Democrats that in hindsight could give fodder for placing the BLAME of all this on them.
I'm sure that NO Republicans made ANY decisions EVER that aided into this financial mess... it was *ALL* caused by that one fateful time where the Democrats stone-walled the Republicans.
You're right. The reason all of the financial problems of today exist is because of what the Democrats did.
Sorry - I am not a Democrat, but I don't buy it. AT BEST, the Democrat's hands may be FAR DIRTIER than the Republicans over time in this issue, but by no means is what we're going through now 100% the fault of the Democrats blocking that ONE Bill.
I don't buy it. Sorry.
9/22/2008 4:03:29 PM
To be clear: My response is to the claim made in this thread title:
"LOL - Democrats CAUSED THIS MESS... Grab your ankles."
And while the reporting in the article is "sound" to speculate that had the bill gotten passed back then, things might (probably) be much different.
BUT... it does not mean that this entire financial mess is the fault solely of Democrats. It merely cites ONE POINT IN TIME where there was a spiteful failure to act that MIGHT have prevented this - but is FAR from the CAUSE of it.
Is that making sense...? (seriously... I never know if I'm being clear)
I spun the whole point of it into my OWN disdain for either side all-out blaming the other side wholly for any one issue - this one included. There were bad decisions made leading up to this disaster and for any to think that it was 100% of EITHER party is (to me) someone "drinking the Kool-Aid".
9/22/2008 4:14:30 PM
"There is a difference between an opinion piece, and researched reporting."
Yes, there is and the item Milhouse linked is an opinion piece.
To whit: "Commentary by Kevin Hassett".
The reality is that the a lot of people are responsible for this mess. Democrats, Republicans, politicians, bankers and regular people.
Blaming it on the Democrats is at best a convenient soundbite and at worst bullshit partisan politics.
9/22/2008 4:17:18 PM
I wish I could articulate my thoughts that clearly. :)
<--- not that smaaht
9/22/2008 4:18:40 PM
"I'm sure that NO Republicans made ANY decisions EVER that aided into this financial mess... it was *ALL* caused by that one fateful time where the Democrats stone-walled the Republicans."
Rule #1: The party someone supports never does anything wrong or bad
Rule #2: See rule
That's just the way it is now.
9/22/2008 4:19:08 PM
(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
9/22/2008 4:25:26 PM
and mine.
doh!
I kid because I care.
9/22/2008 4:54:18 PM
...and sadly... BECAUSE I defend the point of fairness... it's going to make some think that I am a Democrat. This really is a f*cked-up system. I am all-for whomever is RIGHT for this country - regardless of political affiliation - and that gets wrongly lumped-in with Americans that are unable to commit to something... as if we just cannot bring ourselves to make a choice...
I would rather be open-minded to chose either candidate based on sifting through partisan Bull-Sh*t... than to blindly back a candidate solely on the fact that they were nominated within a specific party.
Yes - I'm still hijacking the thread, I guess.
Why is it okay that "Place either candidate here" is being hailed by their respective parties... when months-ago, the parties themselves - fragmented in choosing their candidate - had such negative things to say about each of them - yet it ALL gets magically erased after the acceptance of nomination.
Nobody else sees fundamental flaws in this...? Nobody sees how much douche-baggery exists when Hillary has to support Obama... or Romney and Huckabee having to suck-it-up and support McCain after opposing HIM prior...?
So it's all bullsh*t.
Either they are full of sh*t BEFORE the primaries and will say anything to win, and their opponents really ARE all capable individuals... OR... the wrong person got nominated but out of support for the party, they all grin and lie to support the party.
Either way... the whole partisan approach sucks - and the idea of blaming ONE over the OTHER in these scenarios is just unnecessary.
9/22/2008 5:08:07 PM
I'm sorry if I came off all hard-assed.
It's just hearing every Dem on TV and radio Today, blaming Capitalism, and Capitalists for what is going on, when I know that those particular entities are the children of the most left meaning members of the Democrat party, is infuriating.
"Equal Opportunity" loans, sub-prime loans etc. etc. etc. were all dreamed up by Dems in Congress, and forced down the throat of the lending companies by Janet Reno (for President Clinton) and as that article says, when the Repubs tried to stop it, before this all happened, the Dems would not allow it.
This is not a failure of Capitalism, it is a failure of Socialism.
Just look at the names of the people Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac supported most: Dodd, Obama, Clinton...
Look at the facts, there IS a party to blame for the "Equal Opportunity" loans movement.
96% of us pay our mortgages. The 4% the Dems thought should have homes, even though they couldn't afford them, are the problem here. And yes, there is an "affirmative action" element to all of this as well that no news station will even dare to mention.
This bail out, which they knew was always going to be a possibility when things went wrong, is just more redistribution of wealth.
You don't need to be particularly partisan to know which side of the aisle wants to take money from people who pay taxes, and give it to people who don't.
9/22/2008 7:22:22 PM
Sorry, CM, but congress doesn't pass legislation with only one side supporting it. The Republicans are just as much at fault here.
The fact is NOBODY in D.C. is interested in what you or I want. They will fuck you at the first opportunity.
Too bad more people don't realize that McSame and Gobama don't give a shit about the people.
9/22/2008 7:27:51 PM
The title of this thread sounds more like the Limbaugh explanation of the financial crisis:"Democrats fuck up wall street".Blah,blah blah....What a pile of elephant shit.
The secretary of the treasury just forked over 1 trill of your hard earned dollars to stabilize the market with no oversight or accountability.Isn't that what caused this market crisis in the first place? (You gotta admit,that statement sounds good doesn't it?)
I think I'm broke but don't want to know for sure,I'm afraid to look! Another serious plunge on the market today,I've never seen anything like this,Can anyone remember a 500 point loss? I can't
9/22/2008 7:28:24 PM
Dog, I disagree.
You said:
"The fact is NOBODY in D.C. is interested in what you or I want. They will fuck you at the first opportunity."
I just don't agree with that because I think if they really knew how to make us happy, they'd do it in a heartbeat. That would give them power. The problem as I see it, is that one party (yes, the Democrats) have found a way to increase their power by playing up class warfare, and giving quick handouts and band-aids in exchange for votes from people they've convinced will and can never pick themselves up out of the jam they are in.
And I believe their power has grown so much, that we are in serious danger of having a system where those people really can't pick themselves up, because entrepreneurialism and hard work are no longer encouraged, in fact, they are discouraged by self-employment tax, capital gains tax, etc. etc.
9/22/2008 7:44:34 PM
True captain,my business sucks to insure myself and my help.It's like the highest in the industry.Thats why I keep my union job and my weekend job.I need all three to keep myself going.
9/22/2008 7:51:54 PM
Entrepreneurialism? Are you shittin' me? Is that a word?
9/22/2008 7:58:43 PM
Carl,
No worries... you WERE correct, in that I was not speaking directly about the ARTICLE subject, but responding more this THREAD subject. The IDEA that blaming one party (or another) *WHOLLY* for any given problem is getting old.
I know I can tend to slip into rhetoric and generalizations - because, let's face it - - it's easy and I'm lazy. :)
I usually know very clearly in MY MIND what I mean and how it relates... but I'm rarely effective transferring those thoughts in a clear way via my keyboard.
AFWIW - debating and disagreeing about politics doesn't mean anything to me... I have VERY good friends that are die-hards in BOTH parties. I just like debating - period. :)
9/22/2008 9:38:37 PM
Vote Whig in 2008!
9/22/2008 9:38:38 PM
ThatGuy, I should also mention that I found milhouse's title to be counterproductive and was probably designed to get that kind of response so your post was probly fine and dandy.
I just wish the news channels would report the facts in that article some time before election day.
9/22/2008 10:36:07 PM
I just wish news channels would report facts. Period.
9/23/2008 5:48:03 PM
I always report fact, stick with me, i'll keep you updated.
My title was damn productive if i damn say so my damn self.
9/23/2008 5:51:42 PM
Why bother bantering back and forth over an issue that is really a non-issue? Left or right white or black read the article or do not read the article...Vote for whomever you feel would best lead this country, stop analizing what is out of your control and what you do not get paid to do, find better ways to enjoy life, and move on...
No I did not read any article......
If youn want a nice read...
Read George Washington's Farwell Address...
earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica...He had it right and 'we' screwed it up!
9/24/2008 8:35:02 PM
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