So - here's the deal - as if you haven't already figured me out (or assuming you give a sh*t either way):

I don't really like Obama. I don't HATE the man, and I don't buy-into the idea that you have to have served in the military and be religious to be a good leader of this country... but I still don't think he's a strong choice...

On the other hand... I ABSOLUTELY FEAR the thought of having a republican Whitehouse again. I agree that McCain is a stand-up guy and it's great that he served out country. But I have this nagging fear that another 4-years of a Republican-run office is not going to be enough of a change to correct things that *I* feel are important.

I *KNOW* it won't be Bush in there any more - it won't be the same advisors - but that would also be true for Obama. McCain has integrity and character, but he's also out-of-touch with a LOT of things (good thing Palin is not).

I want to trust that McCain & Palin REALLY WILL bring positive change, but they have not said anything (yet - looking forward to McCain's speech tonight) to comfort ME that they will be on the right track.

Both Giulianni's and Palin's speeches seemed very "pandering" and I TRULY ... HONESTLY believe that that time would have been MUCH BETTER SPENT speaking indirectly to the Democrats, Independents, undecided and the fringe Republicans that are voting Obama - For them to focus on ALLEVIATING OUR FEARS of the idea of "4 more of the same" - TELL US why it'll be different - Don't insult and diminish the opposing candidate with easy rhetoric that you KNOW the rest of the republicans are going to eat-up...

Take a moment to think about the people that AREN'T a "lock" for your votes... Again, it was the same thing from both parties - the generalizations - Yeah, the Dem.'s want to raise taxes and have bigger Gov't - blah blah blah - we get it... the same argument for decades.

Drop that BS and realize that there's a BIG PERCENTAGE of Americans out here that are fed-up with what has happened over the past 8-years and want to be SURE that it's not going to be business as usual once another Republican gets into office.

There's a HUGE opportunity for the Republican speech-writers to target those that MIGHT be considering Obama - especially those that ONLY consider Obama out of fear of another Republican president. People like ME...!!!!!

Yes... there are a lot of "ME" out here that don't really like Obama... He is FAR from what I would consider an "ideal" candidate, although I don't feel he will be "horrible" either...

But I WANT to see a sliver of hope as to WHY I should trust the McCain/Palin ticket over going Democratic... Try talking to us "middle of the road'ers" with a a different approach - instead of bashing the Obama-character... SELL ME on why your presidency will be different than the Bush-8... Please... give me SOMETHING.

< end rant >

There you have it - now you know, I am not some Obama supporter - I am trying my best to see this campaign "fairly" - which is really tough with all the B.S. speech writing which is saying a whole lot of nothing on BOTH sides.

Sorry you can't see what's good for you.

Vote for the lesser of two evils.

No disrespect to ya, but Obama offers you nothing,

unless you need welfare etc..

BTW, I will NOT compromise my integrity and vote for any candidate I to hold my nose while voting.

"You "know" this how?"

Because that's what the right wing media tells him!! duh

Barbie - that's why it's "in the sand" - easily movable. What was wishy-washy about what I said...? I said VERY CLEARLY that I am not a lock for either candidate because neither of them seem like the right choice - I am using the next month or two to see if I can get ANY shred of evidence that the Republican party can pull us out of what we're currently in.

Maybe I'll just stay out of political discussions here :o)

If I don't say enough, people make assumptions to what I think - if I spell it out, it's not good enough and people label the lack of a final decision as wishy-washy. :o)

Don't forget -SOME of us JUST STARTED paying attention to the details - ignoring the rhetoric leading-up to this point.

If you don't vote, you don't get the right to complain about the President you get.

The choices are:

A brilliant orator who says nothing and is passionate about who he is (in my opinion)
An average speaker who acknowledges that his country made him what he is, maverick or otherwise (again in my opinion)

Seriously, "what the country made him" , verses "what the country owes him". Am I the only one who sees this very basic philisophical difference?

Not voting should not take away your right to complain

If you work, pay taxes, obey the laws, pay tolls, raise kids who do the same you are participating in and contributingin a valuable way to the process of RUNNING our country, state, city, etc

You can not vote and still legitimately have the right to complain

Not voting doesnt mean you dont have the right or ability to complain, but it IS your 2nd most powerful weapon (behind voting with your wallet) in taking control of your own destiny.

step softly and carry a big stick.


complaining is for pansys.

so, let's vote McCain for president and all the dems who want Obama can then volunteer to go work in the inner city and hand out the extra 15-20% of their own money that Obama wants to get his hands on.

Do it as a voluntary thing.

The thing is, the ONLY people who want more taxes to fund social programs and handouts are the ONES WHO GET THEM, not the ones who don't need them.

Is there anyone here who wants to voluntarily pay more taxes? For real?

"but it IS your 2nd most powerful weapon"


...Surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our four...no...

Just to inject a little humor here... this made me laugh out loud. Watch his eyes!

youtube.com/watch?v=1rn5xbwtn...

"The thing is, the ONLY people who want more taxes to fund social programs and handouts are the ONES WHO GET THEM, not the ones who don't need them."

Yes, the Democrat politicians who want to pander to the underclass to get their votes. All these programs to "help" people aren't really helping them in the long run. In fact, the Government has created an entire class of people solely dependent on Uncle Sugar's handouts and they pass that down from generation to generation. You think they are going to vote for a guy who threatens to cut off their welfare?

So they don't work because we pay all their bills and who is left to do the jobs "no American will do." Why the next wave of potential Democratic Party voters streaming across the border into America.

Why anyone in the middle class would vote for a Democrat is beyond me. Are they that blind?


"Is there anyone here who wants to voluntarily pay more taxes? For real? "

Great point and to illustrate the point, for as many bleeding heart liberals as there are in MA, how many actually check the box on their tax returns to voluntarily pay the higher rate? I believe the rate is somewhere around 2% of all taxpayers.

I agree about the useless "war on drugs" but terrorism is a real issue that affects all of our lives. We drop our guard and another 9/11 or worse WILL happen.

I wish we'd stop calling it a war in Iraq too. The war phase ended a few years ago and we're now doing nation building...which a certain individual said we'd never do when he was running for office.

We weren't calling it a war in Germany and Japan after 1945 when the Marshall Plan was in effect and we're doing a similar thing today.

Either way, we should be sticking the Iraqi Government with the cost of fixing their country. The guy who makes that a part of his platform may get my vote.

You think you have it bad at airports?

I got tagged for the additional special search three times in a row and everytime I was traveling on U.S. government orders with an Air Force ID. The third time I was really pissed and the TSA guy agreed how stupid it was but nothing he could do about it.

MOVE ALONG THIS ISN'T THE THREAD YOU'RE LOOKING FOR

great. this thread just went down the $hitter.

I hate to say it but the more you folks carry on about this stuff, the more credence you give to much of what I was trying to say on this forum months ago—things that I scarcely want to believe or accept myself. Yet, this is what the world appears to have come to at this time.

This election is a sham. It's all smoke and mirrors, propaganda and sleight-of-hand. The two party system has become an empty shell, a living caricature of what it is supposed to be. The world is becoming increasingly smaller and easier to control. If you look at what is going on beneath the veil of "Pravda" that the media foists upon us day in and day out, you will notice that the world is moving inexorably toward, lets say, a total economic and sociological restructuring. The election to office of any one of these candidates (however competent they may be) will not solve our problems or change the status quo. No single man or woman would be near powerful enough to facilitate such a change.

When I listen to someone like Rush Limbaugh or Jay Severin on talk radio, all I can think of is the term "paper tiger" or, in this case, "paper pundit". As highly skilled as they are as talk show hosts and communicators, they are nonetheless part and parcel —albeit unwittingly—of the whole system. In other words, they are merely arbiters or rhetoricians; taking the side of a pat and contrived line of thinking—as in a debate—and arguing it at length. They are nothing more than entertainers and mouthpieces. Liberal democrats are supposed to behave and think in this manner and "conservative" republicans are supposed to behave and think in another way. At one time that way of looking at things probably meant much more than it does now.

Over time, things have become mixed-up, overlapped and confused. As an example, people are forever referring to the system in this country as a "democracy", which is tantamount to calling it a "dictatorship of the proletariat or "mob rule". What this government is truly supposed to be; what it was designed to be is a "constitutional representative republic".

I could go on but I have to get ready for my gig tonight.......

Well put Dave. That's why politics are as impossible as they are controversial: they're like religious beliefs.

That peteyandpetunia.com thing has got to be one or the most entertaining computer animations I've ever seen! Thanks for posting it!