Playing for free?
I know of at least a couple of bands including ourselves that are playing at a venue that hosts major acts. Apparently, we locals aren't being paid for our labor, compensation is a ticket to the headliner.
Is this worth it? I have no delusions of grandeur as I'm not young and pretty so becoming a star is highly unlikely. But I haven't played free gigs for 20 years. Is this worth it?
7/31/2008 11:46:41 AM
For what I suspect you are doing, I say yes. How often do you get a chance to play in front of that many people?
For a club, party, etc. no way but at a large venue opening for a name act, yeah, I'd do it.
7/31/2008 11:55:23 AM
Depends on what you want to get out of it.
If it's publicity or bragging rights take lots of photos and videos that you can later use to promote yourself.
An asscociation with a major act gan give you clout to the right people. It may not mean all that much to musicians in the industry but it will to your fan base and they don't mind bragging for you. :-)
7/31/2008 11:55:24 AM
Are your services being "hired" with the hopes that something good to YOU will happen. If so, then it's your call.
If your talent and hard work is being utilized to help the possible success of someone else, then you are most definately a hired hand and should be compensated for it somehow.
I've been this biz a long time and I feel confident to pick and choose what I should be compensated for.
Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to play a political fundraiser or charity event where the organizers would say "it doens't pay, but you'll get alot of exposure!"
I only do charity events and fundraisers if it's a cause that I truly believe in. If my band is called upon to do such an event, I PAY them, even though I'd be doing it pro-bono.
It's called Ethics.
So it comes down to your own personal feeilngs. Is playing for free going to do anything for you as a musician?
But if you do choose to play for free, make sure I have your email and phone number. If I ever need a bass sub, I'll be sure to call you first.......it'll save me money!
;)
7/31/2008 11:59:30 AM
It comes down to economics.
Opportunity Cost. The value of what you can afford to NOT make.
Are you driving more than an hour both ways to the gig? Gas expense....
Are you rehearsing alot?......gas expense, leaving work early (again, $$).
Who pays for your meals, drinks, tolls?
If YOUR costs compared to what you're making, or in this case, NOT making, eclipse the total $$ you could make if something successful does come out of your freebie gigs will give you your answer.
7/31/2008 12:09:02 PM
Considering a ticket to a major act is $60 and up, You ain't doing that bad. Not to mention the good PR you can get out of it.
7/31/2008 12:09:22 PM
But Passion will always win over money.
No one can answer for you, you have to search the answer yourself.
7/31/2008 12:11:33 PM
You'll have to pay me Jim.
I'm not sure that this opportunity will advance my musical career.
7/31/2008 12:28:19 PM
Never do what you're good at for free.
7/31/2008 12:29:20 PM
And I would always pay you Don.....
And "Free" does not have to always be monetary.
Sometimes a mere "thank you" is worth more than money.
Gas Cards and Dunkin Donut certificates are good too!!
7/31/2008 12:31:47 PM
Like I said. Playing for free refers to financial compensation. But there are other compensations that are equivilent to money if you had to go and pay for it yourself.
Not to mention for some it could be a great field trip for those who really love this business and would love to be apart of something really larger than anything they are used to doing.
Think of it from the other end if you were a Major Act on tour. You could hire a touring band if you suspect you won't be filling up the venues and could use a little help.
Or you could be all set and just want to help out some locals remembering what it was like before they were a major act.
As just a member of a band that nobody knows who you might be but the band you are in may get way more out of it.
Then in that case I would think as JZ stated to pay your band members if you can as they may not be reaping the benefits of that kind of exposure but you still want to sound your best.
7/31/2008 12:32:14 PM
If the club saysd they're going to pay you and then they give you the shaft at the end of the night does that count?
7/31/2008 12:34:29 PM
I learned that in college Juice..........DOHHH!!!!
Just jivin' man........saw the opportunity and I took it!!
7/31/2008 12:34:40 PM
I'd play for free if you'd let me.
7/31/2008 12:39:17 PM
I've taken pay to play gigs where we had to pay the venue to open for a national act in exchange for tickets
then Jani Lane backed out of the gig because he's a f*cking jerk
then the place was f*cking packed out the ass anyway
then Pub30something made a f*cking killing because they didn't have to pay Jani Lane anymore
But I got to autograph some chick's booob that night with a ballpoint pen so it evened out
7/31/2008 12:39:56 PM
Like I said, a mere "Thank You' or placing a ball point pen on a mammary gland can be worth MUCH more than money!
7/31/2008 12:41:11 PM
Her boob evened-out...? That's not hot at all...
7/31/2008 12:41:38 PM
I didn't expect to get rich off this gig but expected to at least break even in terms of my expenses to get there. Additionally, the contract for the gig arrived 10 days prior to the event even though we got booked before the season started. It wasn't until receiving the contract that we were informed that we were not being compensated monetarily.
I'm not interested in field trips.
The cost of the ticket has no value for me as I wouldn't have paid to see this show.
I'm not whining about it. I'm just not seeing the value of this gig for me. Doing it doesn't advance my interests but helps overall. Apparently, some would jump at the opportunity and I wouldn't blame you. I believe however that my time has more value. Other bands I'm in/have been in wouldn't consider doing the gig for free ever.
7/31/2008 12:42:54 PM
I always refer back to "Golden Rule".
Meaning, I would never have anyone in my band do something that I wouldn't do.
7/31/2008 12:43:30 PM
See, you answered your own question with a little help from your friends.
"Gosh, Mr. I didn't know!"
And knowing is half the battle.......
G.I.JOOOOOOOOOOOOE!!!!!!
7/31/2008 12:48:15 PM
I guess it depends who the national act is too
If you're taking the gig and not seeing value in it, I would be nervous you weren't going full bore-
I always get nervous when there's unpleasantries in a band before a gig, because I think people don't play as well when they're pissed
7/31/2008 12:48:51 PM
> the contract for the gig arrived 10 days prior to the event
> even though we got booked before the season started
I dunno, Don, from the limited information I'm reading here, it looks like someone's trying to pull something.
If you, someone in your band, or your agent "booked" the show months ago, but now a contract shows up that says you're not getting paid (which I would consider a material fact in the agreement), I'd say they don't have an agreement.
However, now you're talking about possible consequences to "backing out" of this verbal agreement. Again, whether those are not worth the trouble of not playing the gig, that's up to you.
I certainly would be very careful about my next booking with whoever you're dealing with right now.
7/31/2008 12:55:27 PM
JZ I drove by a college once. I always wondered what they did in there. The movies make them seem so different.
RB, There are different levels to the music industry. One shoe doesn't fit all. Just last night I was chatting with a local artist and he was invited to go to this big private party of one of his longtime music producer idols.
He was going to just hang out and gawk at all the gold and platinum records of some of his favorite bands. Well he got to talking to the producer by chance and the next thing you know he was invited to be flown out to LA to record some recordings.
From a networking standpoint that oppurtunity may never ever have happened had he not gone on a whim. And that's how a lot of this business works. Mostly handshakes and meeting with the unsuspecting right people at the right time.
7/31/2008 12:56:19 PM
Don check your email. Sent you my feelings on it. Basically I can summarize them thusly.
Bullsh**t! Hard working musician's getting taken advantage of yet again.
7/31/2008 12:57:34 PM
I opened for .38 Special and Cheap Trick at the Casino.
.38 Specials crew were assholes.
I made $0.
It was well worth it tho' as the place was SRO and when I got the chance to solo walked to the edge of the stage to see a good friend of mine in the front row yelling" Jim LeBoeuf, what the hell are you doing here"
To which I screamed "ROCKIN THE SHIT OUT OF IT!"
yeah that was cool. GOOD MEMORY
7/31/2008 1:00:59 PM
However if you are just a coverband playing for money then those types of gigs would have little value.
And if all you want to do is play for short money then it's not worth playing for free becuase your invested time will not benifit you.
7/31/2008 1:01:02 PM
Heres the big question: Is the person you are backing making any money? And not necessarily JUST from the gigs, theres also merch sale, internet downloads, publishing, etc etc.... If so you are being played for a fool...
7/31/2008 1:01:17 PM
That's kinda strange, usually the opener will be playing the same genre of music as the main act. If you really wouldn't pay to see the headliner, maybe you're not happy with your gig.
I mean, if you're a hired gun, then at least YOU should get paid.
Just some thoughts....
7/31/2008 1:02:46 PM
I haven't read the whole thread.
Even though I'm a "jobber" by trade, and think working musicians should get paid, but this is a different situation.
When deciding upon your worth on a gig (and let's make sure we understand that I mean that as your value to the guy paying the bills, not your general worth as a musician) you have to consider how many asses you are putting in the seats (or keeping there). In this case, I'm assuming the answer is, none (or at least a statistical zero). Maybe even statistical zero for the whole band. So it's understandable that the promoter/event organizer etc. have no interest or desire to pay you. You'd be money spent to no end. There are thousands of great musicians, with an interest in furthering their careers in THAT area who would kill to be there, and I'm sure some who would actually pay to be there.
I'd do it. (if no other paying gig was around that day anyway) Any experience can be really good if approached with an open mind and no expectation of personal gain.
7/31/2008 1:31:22 PM
The music business has always been rife with this kind of thing: work hard for little or no compensation and feel fortunate in that you're even being given a chance to do it.
We're supposed to be so completely in-love and infatuated with what we do that we'll zealously pounce on whatever situation avails itself to perform unconditionally. Why? because we have stars in our eyes and are forever groping for that "brass ring".
The people that run the music business are very much aware of this dynamic and have absolutely no qualms about exploiting it.
We were also offered such an opportunity recently but at a very impromptu time: on a Sunday as I was literally going out the door with bags packed for a short vacation. Also, the other members of the band were scattered—one of them working.
The gig was at least a two hour drive away and show time would have been in less than three hours. No money for the gig? Well, I really wouldn't mind playing an event like that, it's just that I'd not only have to forego
my vacation, I'd have to shell out over $100 for diesel fuel to make the trip. And I'm not even given the courtesy for compensation for traveling expense......at a major league gig and a major league venue!? Yet I can go around the corner from my house and get booked at "The Sucktooth Bar & Grill" for $500? What's wrong with this picture??
Yet, if everyone was around and all "the stars had been lined-up", I would have dug deep and done the show for the experience because I do in-fact love what I do. So, everyone is correct in they're interpretation of this. Like JZ said, you have to arrive at the answer yourself.
7/31/2008 1:38:28 PM
I guess the thing I'm most unclear about is what Don would be getting out of this. Is his band going to be one of the acts on the docket (with the accompanying advertising and new audience exposure) or is he going to be playing unnamed in a band that backs up some national artist.
IMO, the latter isn't going to get you much, aside from the joy of playing on a big stage behind some famous person (a la Chuck Berry's infamous backup bands). I can certainly see the benefit of the first option more than the second one.
7/31/2008 1:41:10 PM
And sometimes a band is smitten with a cute lead singer and will play anywhere, for anything.
Wait, what?
7/31/2008 1:43:44 PM
Man, all these opinions that mostly boil down to "depends". :)
I'm sure I'd do the gig for the experience and for fun. But then again, I don't play music to pay my bills either.
7/31/2008 1:48:27 PM
If it's the venue I think it is. It does not further ones career to play in a beer tent 200 yards from the main stage. I did it once.
Took a vacation day to do it and ended up with nothing to show for it. It's NOT an "opening" slot for a major act. It's a beer tent gig.
7/31/2008 1:55:51 PM
"I'd do it. (if no other paying gig was around that day anyway) Any experience can be really good if approached with an open mind and no expectation of personal gain."
Carl, I got a call to do a fundraiser gig for Obama. Doesn't pay, but I hear there will be a Tiki Bar.
Gig is on a Tuesday afternoon from 5 -7.
Doesn't interest me, you want me throw it your way?
;)
7/31/2008 1:58:05 PM
I guess if you recently join a band and the band has developed itself over a long time and the founding members were of the same mindset to take anything to get ahead. And then replace a member with a new member. It would not seem very reasonable to expect the same form of commitment from someone who may only be temporary and not have any of the credit of the person before him.
That kind of loyalty shouldn't be expected without some form of compensation.
7/31/2008 2:00:42 PM
Traveling that wind and laugh at the crowd, ummm the fool and me
Howl at the moon baby yeah out loud, the fool and me
And ohh oh, where ever we go
We keep the spirit free
Ohh nobody knows
No one but the fool and me
Stretching on out and feeling fine, the fool and me
Two fools dancing on the hands of time, yeah
The fool and me
And ohh oh, where ever we go
We keep the spirit free
Ohh nobody knows
No one but the fool and me
Running like the wind and laugh at the crowd, the fool and me
Howl at the moon yeah out loud loud, the fool and me
And ohh oh where ever we go
We keep the spirit free
Ohh nobody knows
No one but the fool and me
7/31/2008 2:06:53 PM
I'm one of the few musicians who have indeed turned down political gigs because I didn't support the candidate!
That, and everyone knows you get stiffed playing for Dems. (honestly, that's not me and my bias speaking, Republican candidates tend to pay their bills on time, Dems don't)
I recently played for the Dem NH Gov with my brother's band though, I hesitated, but I personally don't mind this Gov and was pleasantly surprised that he kept his promise of No Sales Tax/ No Income Tax.
But I digress, this is obviously a personal decision that has everything to do with where in one's career he or she feels he or she is.
There is a huge gap between playing Originals, and playing Covers. You have to be ready to completely change your outlook and standard operating procedures.
7/31/2008 2:09:22 PM
Touching on something someone said that I agree with, Yes, hired guns should be paid. Unless there is something to gain in the future, a promise, a deal, whatever, a hired gun needs to be paid.
Of course demanding payment from the elements in the band that find the gig important, will immediately brand you a hired gun, and you'll always be treated as such. Lots of angles.
That's why I'm looking more and more into playing solo. ;-)
7/31/2008 2:12:25 PM
Geesh, I forget to put a semi -colon and a right parenthesis and you get all defensive..........;).
I was being hypothetical you jobber solo act!!!!
7/31/2008 2:15:20 PM
I know that! Dems would never spend money on a Tiki bar!
7/31/2008 2:16:27 PM
An addendum to the "hired gun" statement is that it can end up hurting the "hired gun".
Patrick Moraz was hired as a temporary hired gun for the Moody Blues in the 80's. He was also a hired gun in Yes for a while when Wakeman left. The court case went on for years, so I'm really just summarizing the whole story.
Bottom line, the 2nd round of success that befell the Moody Blues in the 80's was great for Moraz. But they eventually found a permanent member and he argued that he was a full time member of the band. It's a total he said/they said, and I think it was settled out of court.
Meaning, there's no "climbing back on the train" once you get to your stop. If you're intention was to provide a service, do it to your best, which is why you got the job. If you're a "true" hired gun, the next job is right around the corner.
7/31/2008 2:22:10 PM
"That's why I'm looking more and more into playing solo. ;-)"
Carl if your talking about your personal artistic career I know a great place to get some good exposure. :-)
I often though about being a hired gun.
But nobody ever has a need for a gun that shoots blanks. :-(
7/31/2008 2:29:08 PM
Now THAT.........was funny Juice!
7/31/2008 2:31:33 PM
I have the pleasure of playing with a fairly popular local original artist who or many occasions has to hit up the ATM machine to pay her band after gigs, this is a moral issue...
...what comes around goes around....
7/31/2008 2:55:43 PM
Just to be very clear, this isn't the ARTIST saying they won't pay, this is the venue suddenly changing the agreement
7/31/2008 3:18:28 PM
gay ass Jani Lane
7/31/2008 3:23:39 PM
"Just to be very clear, this isn't the ARTIST saying they won't pay, this is the venue suddenly changing the agreement "
Not Again!
10 days ahead with agreement in hand isn't exactly sudden.
What agreement did they have in hand 10 days prior to the gig that got changed?
7/31/2008 3:40:45 PM
Simple solution. Next time just show up with no gear or instruments and say we are her to play. Set us up with something to play with.
If they ask where you gear is say you only move your gear for paying gigs. Duh! But you'll be happy to perfrom per the agreement. :-)
7/31/2008 3:44:18 PM
I worked at that venue last week and the band I was working with was talking about this same issue, - and griping to me about their lack of compensation. After the show, - the main act came out to the area and watched them. Some of the members even got up and jammed. A memory I'm sure NO ONE in that band will ever forget. They then told me it was the best gig they ever had!
(this has happened twice so far this year)
I'm not saying it happens with everyone, - but these gigs are NOT club dates, - they are exposure dates. Use them as they're intended and it WILL help. The venue has a lot of clout and good reputation. Their name on your resume will help you land better paying gigs.
There is value in that,... and value in the tickets comp'd to the band.
You can always find a "better paying" gig, - join a wedding band and you'll make more than any club gig, - does that mean that all club musicians should stop gigging to become wedding musicians...???
It's all about what's important to YOU...
Just my .02
7/31/2008 4:42:05 PM
Also,...
Two of the bands that played second stage this year impressed management so much, - they were asked to play the main stage. If that's the kind of opportunity that doesn't interest you, then I agree that maybe it's not your kind of gig.
7/31/2008 5:43:24 PM
It''s been settled, we will not be doing the gig. It is not a main stage opening act gig, it's 2nd stage.
Everyone has very valid points and going through this there appears to have been a good discussion. The person employed by the venue that arranges for entertainment should have been up front last winter/spring that 2nd stage acts would be compensated only with tickets. The fact that the contract didn't go out until less than 2 weeks before the performance in which we were then made aware that our services would be provided at no cost I think is disturbing. This may have been a miscommunication on the part of that person OR maybe that person was too insecure to state terms up front.
I have no animosity towards the venue because I've worked there off season with another band and had a great time. Additionally, the band last year was given a small amount to do the gig. As a personal business decision, I'm fine not taking the loss for my time and the money it would have cost me to go there.
7/31/2008 5:58:09 PM
We'll see if they get that next year Gary. We've heard the same thing.
7/31/2008 5:59:06 PM
My last post was a little negative. It was just a quick thought I fired off while I was at the office.
If a group wants to do this venue as a fun summer gig and see a show, that’s great. If someone thinks it’s good exposure, that’s cool too as long as it’s in the whole bands best interest.
All musicians have their own agenda and will justify their actions based upon their agenda, be it hidden or not.
I think if an artist is the only one to benefit, then the band should be paid. It’s ethical.
I remember a friend telling me how pissed off it made him that players were willing to play a room for less money than he received. He’s a seasoned pro and always gets paid top dollar. Demands it. My point is that as long as players are willing to play for low or no money, it just turns into a world of shit for great players who deserve to be paid for being asked to play only as support, a hired gun. Me? If I’m going to be treated like a hired gun then I should be paid for my time and talent. Why? Because I’m worth it.
Are you?
7/31/2008 6:31:57 PM
I didn't see your last post before I finished typing. Cool.
7/31/2008 6:35:53 PM
"And sometimes a band is smitten with a cute lead singer and will play anywhere, for anything.
Wait, what?"
There we go...
7/31/2008 7:14:10 PM
Playing a gig in the beer tent, even for free sounds good right about now.
7/31/2008 7:36:22 PM
I thought you WERE in that band.
7/31/2008 9:17:12 PM
OK, I admit it.
I'm the kid with the glasses, near the end.
7/31/2008 9:56:59 PM
I like to get paid, just like anybody else. But, if there's a good cause, or a really good gig for a lot of people, I'm not gonna piss and moan about money. I'd rather just play my music for people who want to hear it. We all spend time and money trying to promote ourselves by sending out CD's and hoping someone will listen to them, why not show folks what we can do first hand?
Much better than sitting at home watching TV, right?
7/31/2008 10:46:24 PM
Tony has it right. Players that work for no or low money sell everyone else short. That's my opinion.
7/31/2008 11:28:51 PM
I always like this quote, I think it's by J.S. Bach.
"I have no quarrels with those who charge less for their work than I do. For they know what their work is worth."
8/1/2008 1:27:32 AM
*in my best "stoner voice"
do it for the myoooosik man.
8/1/2008 3:22:16 AM
Personally I think this is bullshit. The only way I'm playing for free is if it's for a charity or family member event. If the venue is making money then at the very least they should cover the openers expenses and throw them a little cash for their efforts. This is a case of promoters being greedy.
8/1/2008 7:29:46 AM
i can't believe they do not pay the beer tent band any money. they make a killing up there and think that the 2nd stage band will come begging on their knees. which they almost always do. just for a shot of their 15 min. and a good "memory". maybe a young band would sacrifice everything they have,,,,,,but an older band would think twice. all that gig is a chance to brag to your friends for a couple of weeks.
8/1/2008 8:49:02 AM
and add to your club gig reseme.(sic).
8/1/2008 8:51:30 AM
I think the gig would be fun. The problem is the expense and effort just to get there and do it. You gotta at least break even. I have and would again do a free gig (usually a party type) if I knew the host and was wined and dined in a relaxed atmosphere with no time pressures. In that situation it's all fun and games. But business is business.
I can see rockbass's point clearly.
8/1/2008 9:14:56 AM
I think this thread got off topic here.
The question wasn't whether it's good or bad to play for free, it was the situation that Don was in that poses the question.
If I was asked to open up for someone who was an influence of mine at a huge music venue for free, I'd have my gear set up before they could finish the question. But if I had to throw a band together for the event, I would pay each member out of pocket.
If I had to audition for a very high paying music gig, but needed musicians to complement the audition piece, I have to pay them.
Now, it's totally up to the musicians involved if they want to decline payment.
Example, I did a benefit for a cause I believed in and the people involved were friends of mine. They needed entertainment for the evening, I offered my band to them, for free. I told the band the situation. It was only for a few hours, and it paid only $150.00 per man. I told them they have the option of getting paid, or donating their share to the cause, and that I didn't have an opinion on their decision either way. Some donated their fee, some I paid, but it didn't matter to me, I've been a side guy and I still am a hired gun and if I needed the dough that weekend, I would have wanted to get paid.
Bottom line is, when it comes to money and musicians, never assume that everyone shares your beliefs and ideas. Bandleaders don't care about the sidemen's problems, and sidemen don't care about the bandleaders problems. There's no need to.
8/1/2008 9:25:55 AM
Some comments here really over-analyze this issue.
All the should, could, might, may, benefit, perosnal satisfaction, past experience's blah blah blah...etc. (including my own 2c) don't mean squat.
The only question is: Is it worth it to you?
8/1/2008 9:41:52 AM
Das white!!
8/1/2008 9:51:09 AM
RockBass wrote: "I haven't played free gigs for 20 years."
Did you guys get paid for the Hard Rock gig last Friday? i would have guess that type of thing was a freebee, too.
8/1/2008 9:51:46 AM
LOL..Bill with the "BLAMO!" NICE!
CPA: Some comments here really over-analyze this issue.
Boomer: YUP..Exactly!!!!
All the should, could, might, may, benefit, personal satisfaction, past experience's blah blah blah...etc. (including my own 2c) don't mean squat.
The only question is: Is it worth it to you?
Boomer: YUP!!!
My .02 .. Some really, really don't see the ULTIMATE big picture, some don't care to, & some situations may not be right or personally exciting to a performer or band. The gig is what it is..Exposure pure & simple and in my opinion..there is absolutely NO BAND or PERFORMER that is over exposed around here (except maybe Chippa) & that could use an avenue & large venue to play & win over NEW fans money or not. The pay off may not be that gig..but hopefully will benefit in many different ways for the future of the band.
With that said...
Can't wait to play the beer tent sun...I'm excited & can't wait to win over MORE fans that will come to more of our area shows... plus I'm thirsty &! :)
8/1/2008 3:41:30 PM
I can only hope that one of the ohter acts who is playing there does indeed get the chance to move onto the "main stage" to play a show.
Based on my experiences with this venue, that is simply the carrot they dangle to get bands to play for free. I would love to see Bottoms Up or any other band doing original material get on the main stage and do the "opening" show for the major act.
And local acts do make it up there, given that a local act is opening this particular show on the main stage (even thos they insisted that the main act said "no local acts on the main stage").
And the issue isn't even about the pay, when you get down to it. If the band KNEW ahead of time (when the date was booked) that is was going to be for FREE, then a decision could have been made then whether to take it.
The fact that they sent a contract a week before the gig with that info on it only shows (in my mind) that they were hoping the band would just say "oh well, we've put the work in and we should go play it."
So let me ask this.
How many freebies would you do with the promise of getting something "bigger" before you say 'this ain't worth it' ?
8/1/2008 4:18:25 PM
Thanks sincerely Marc for the vote of confidence for BOTTOMS UP. I'd put some of our originals against others & some of the stuff on the radio today. We're proud of the songs & feel we could definately produce on the big stage up north or anywhere. Maybe we're disillusioned...but i'm not totally convinced. Marc we need to hang soon...it's been to long.
I agree 100% with what you said: If the band KNEW ahead of time (when the date was booked) that is was going to be for FREE, then a decision could have been made then whether to take it.
We were told up front & made the decision to do the gig.
As for this statement: How many freebies would you do with the promise of getting something "bigger" before you say 'this ain't worth it' ?
I personally can't answer that because it would depend on wether things looked like they were progressing or it continued to be a waste of time.
What I am surprised with this thread is this...
So many people have mentioned... You'd be a fool to play for nothing..I wouldn't leave my house for nothing...my time & talent is worth money, we're getting compd' 20 tix for a show I wouldn't have paid for anyway.... etc.
Not ONE person ..(that I noticed & If I missed it..I apologize now)..
said... Hey...Let's give back to our friends, fans, & family that we hope & sometimes expect to consistly show up at our club gigs & may like (X) band or concert & can't afford to go, a pair of TIX for a great night out to see our band & other national acts that they may be fans of. They drive all over to see us at clubs a..b..c.., most times spend a cover charge, waste gas, babysitter costs, etc.
To play a gig for free to give back to people that give to us when we play out & get paid is worth it in itself to me.
As a performer..It's the least I can do since they keep the bars full so we can 'GET PAID" & continue to work as a band.
The bonus is having new people see the band, dig our sh*t, buy our merch & come to see us at other club gigs.
It's sad that most that have responded to this thread are all concerned about.."What is in it for me & where's the dough"?
My other .02 ..which now equals .04
8/1/2008 4:42:00 PM
Jean,
Yeah, we need to hang soon. I hear you man, there is definitely something to be said about the giving back and we'd be getting comp'd a couple of tickets, but at a major show like this one, many of the fans of the band aren't going to pay $60 and drive 90 minutes, etc etc etc. And you figure they were counting the comp tickets towards the BAND! 7 tickets for the band, then 13 more for spouses/kids/family. Not exactly paying back to the fans, if ya know what I mean. And the tickets aren't reserveed, down in front either, they are up on the grass in the back and it's never sold out, so the math isn't exactly 20 x $60 = $1200
If it were more local and not cost prohibitive AND we didn't need to be in at 2pm for load in and sound check etc, then I'd be in a different frame of mind.
And you let me know if you DO go up on the main stage, cause I *would* buy a ticket for that show!
8/1/2008 4:53:47 PM
Well bud..each band is different & I agree about the lawn G/A..however...I think you'd be surprised at how may people would do the drive & the time etc. I guess maybe it's easier for us because we're a 3 piece.. with minimal kids & have more tix to go around.
& if the carrot dangling pays off..believe bro..YOU'LL KNOW!
Thanks!
8/1/2008 5:02:07 PM
Boomer you said it best I think.
That is the clash of coverband / original band.
Coverband you are simply a service for hire. Nothing more.
But for an Original artist. When someone says to you we have tons of people gathering not becuase you will be there but someone who has excceded far beyond wher you are or have ever been. And you'll have a chance to play for those people and possibly gain a larger audience for yourself. And all you got to do is show up.
Sure I'll stand in that line. Because it's like all those people have to sit and listen to you and you don't have to pay them. :-)
8/1/2008 7:51:24 PM
Bill, yeah, we didn't get paid for the Hard Rock but that was a contest and we played one 15 minute set. That's no slam.
The position we were in here is we planned on doing this show with a keyboard player that we had to pay and a substitute drummer that needed to get paid to in addition to a back-up singer that was taking the day off from work. The rest of us would have done it. The real problem was that we couldn't afford to pay the people that needed to be paid and without keys and another singer, we wouldn't have been putting our best foot forward. Again, if we had known when this was scheduled initially, we could have either refused then or planned for it. This same band was paid last year for the gig. It wasn't a large amount but enough to pay for gas.
I agree that the 2nd stage is a great opportunity for exposure. Personally, I don't need it, and it's not because I'm full of myself, but because I have realistic expectations for where I expect to be in this business. I already have enough gigs to satisfy my desire to play live.
And, understand that I hold no animosity towards the venue either. When I asked initially if it was worth it, every band will have their own answer. There really is no right or wrong answer to the question.
Anyway, Jean, I hope you guys have a kick ass time.
8/1/2008 8:03:43 PM
what the f*ck
8/1/2008 9:39:38 PM
Message from an Old timer...LOL
It's all relative to the individual....
There is no formula...and there shouldn't be.
Sometimes I play for free...sometimes I play low doe,
sometimes I play for big money ......
The bottom line is....it's all up to the individual...isn't it?
And the variables are ...your state of mind, financial state
or just your mood....but that what makes this business interesting....some of my musician friends and I have talked about this before...we could work in the afternoon and clear $3000.00 and then do a gig at night for Nothing....But you no what? It's all up to you and ther is no wrong or right!
BTW...if any of you need a sax player for a gig my starting price is $500.00 and we'll negotiate from there and man, I like to negotiate LOL
Senor
8/2/2008 1:21:51 AM
Señor Bacardi is right, it's all relative.
Being self-employed, I really need the money, in a big way.
But, being a middle-aged blues musician, I harbor no misconceptions about "being discovered" or "getting famous."
It just plain ain't gonna happen. Not at my age, no matter how well I play or sing. Today, as always, it's about attractive young kids. It always has been. The reason us old farts refuse to give up, and play for little or nothing, is because we simply can't just quit.
That means that everything we've done for 30 or 40 years has been for NOTHING! I for one can't accept that. If nothing else, I still am gaining at least SOME fans, and they're really nice, intelligent people. At least I know that people like me, with similar backgrounds and education, appreciate what we're doing. They get it. And I appreciate them too.
And, at least for me, that's enough. Enough to keep doing it until I no longer can.
8/2/2008 1:48:58 AM
But, we do like being paid what we really are worth. 30 years ago I used to get $300-400 per gig. And I'm much better now.
Nobody likes being taken advantage of...
8/2/2008 1:53:25 AM
"if any of you need a sax player for a gig my starting price is $500.00"
LOL!!!!!!
I would have to think, and say, that the love of playing and performace has alot to do with it as well.
8/2/2008 1:56:20 AM
Thanks Juice & Thanks Don. I hope to have fun.
That's ultimately why "I" play! :)
8/2/2008 3:01:34 AM
This venue you guys are (were) playing is a classic example of "Better to ask for forgiveness than permission". Sort of a passive-agressive card played here.
They knew they were never going to pay you, but as $100 Demo said they "dangled the carrot". It's too bad because had you known the real deal, you could have set aside money to pay the hired guys. Now they're scrambling for a band. So think of it this way, it cost you all nothing and you could probably pick up a gig somewhere and you'll be ahead no matter what the gig pays.
8/2/2008 9:51:25 AM
working for free sounds more like a rip off than playing for free.
i play for free.
i work for a heck of a lot more than any gig i've ever played for pays.
my gigs suck.
but i do like to drink 100proof vodka martinit's until there are no more, so its a wash.
8/3/2008 1:02:20 AM
my band made a sh*tload of money tonight, but I got f*cked out of it which was pretty good except for the fact that I got f*cked out of a sh*tload of money
one of those times where we said- 'just pay us what you make at the door' but that turned out to be way more than we would have asked for as a fee, believe it or not- this was our 3rd real gig
But I still got f*cked and came home with nada
but I got groped pretty good so it all evens out reckon
at least there's beer in the fridge
8/3/2008 1:58:41 AM
"but I got groped pretty good"
What's the lucky fellas name? hehe
8/3/2008 2:23:24 AM
what's up now homes
8/3/2008 2:35:14 AM
THAT WAS YOUR A$$?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
it's a nice one.
8/3/2008 2:35:19 AM
"Is this worth it?"
Shit Yeah!
8/4/2008 2:17:25 PM
"Based on my experiences with this venue, that is simply the carrot they dangle to get bands to play for free."
If you are a young artist that wants to be a national act then you have to go for that carrot.It is that simple.
You have to pay your dues.Playing local clubs might pay pretty well but the exposure is limited. A younger artist need a gig like this for his or her chance to grab that 'carrot'.
Most here, including myself are past the ' Rock Star' stage. Truth be told.
I could care less whether I get paid or not. I love to play and IF I happen to make some cash then that would be fine.
I a fortunate enough to do this as a hobby and my days of auditioning for Chicago, Heart, or Styx are over.
Peace to All,
PBass
8/16/2008 2:33:03 AM
Last words from me...Support the TBASS Benefit Saturday at Deb's..Bring friends, enjoy some good artists, and support those less fortunate than yourself........Everything else seems so small..
Peace to All
P78
8/16/2008 2:43:04 AM
I really enjoyed reading this thread.
I'm reading this immediately after giving my fifteen year old son & his band a ride to Manchester, to play in a Battle of the Bands, but my vehicle only held band members & instruments--no amps, etc. They are hoping to borrow the rest from other bands. It evens out; they've loaned gear in the past.
Of course, this gig, they don't have to play to pay. Every other gig at this venue, they had to sell x number of tix, & if they didn't, they couldn't play. Yes, I've bought more than one ticket so they could take the stage. It's experience & exposure. It's... (as mentioned many times by the seasoned musicians on this thread)... paying your dues (and mom is paying them too).
But, I can't help but think, this is not a 'problem' that is exclusive to musicians. It happens in every, single field of work out there. EVERY field. Anyone who is trying to get ahead, climb the corporate ladder, make a name for themselves finds this dilemna. Every one who had it and lost it, or descending the ladder, who has the 'experience' to 'pass on' also gets put in this situation.
How much is anyone's time worth? The better question to ask, no matter what, is... "What do I want to do right NOW?" All you've got is now, so use it the best way possible, with or without money. Using money as a yardstick to measure your worth is a pretty poor definition of anyone's innate abilities and possibilities.
8/16/2008 2:19:37 PM
Nicely said PEG......
I've done my share of freebeez ...and still do....
It's all up to the individual and the compensation may not always be monetary.
Senor
8/17/2008 3:30:02 AM
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