I need your opinion on a P A System
Ive been looking to put a pa system in the bar and i found a package deal which includes
1x Behringer PMP1280S europower powered mixer 1200 watts
2x JBL JRX115PA Speaker Cabinat 250 watts with stands
3x Audio Technica ST90MKLL Dynamic microphones
3x CBI LowZ Mic 20foot cables
3x tripod/boom mic stands
2x stagg Spekon to speakon speaker cables
the price is $999.95
my question is is a good deal and will it work for my bar
5/11/2008 10:45:25 AM
I haven't been to your room yet, but I doubt that this would be enough for most full bands. And avoid Behringer anything--it won't last.
On another note, I think it's great that you are willing to invest in sound for your room--it shows commitment and you should be commended! I'd hate to see you throw out money, though. The mics are garbage--$30 mics will sound terrible through any sound system. You can do what you want, but I think overall this particular package would be a poor investment and you'd be unhappy with the results.
Good luck!
Randy
5/11/2008 11:16:25 AM
thaks randy that the type of input im looking for
5/11/2008 11:40:22 AM
Nor have I heard your room or know what band play there.
But those items listed above are not designed for regular usage IMO.
JBL is a good choice but the SRX series is low grade comparable to the SF series "Cheaply constructed".
If you go with JBL a good medium choice would be the "M" series. They come in 200 or 400 series. The difference is basically wattage handling.
But there are so many ways to go for equipment but the real cheap stuff you won't be happy with.
For microphones it would be best to just stick to the industry staples Shure SM 57 and SM 58 for general purpose mics you can go wrong and they'll last.
I would suggest talking to some of your bands that have the simplest setups and enough power to fulfill your ideal senario.
You don't need to go crazy but you do want something that will take a beating from people that don't own your stuff.
5/11/2008 12:10:56 PM
Linda,
A decent PA for your room will cost you at least $2500 new. You will need:
2 - 2 way tops
3 - 2 way monitors (two out front, one for the drummer)
1 - 16 channel mixing board (at least)
4 power amps
4 EQs
1 drum mic kit (1 kick drum, 4 toms, 2 overheads)
4 vocal mics (SM57)
3 guitar amp mics (SM 57)
2 direct boxes (bass and keyboards)
20' and 25'microphone cables.
Microphone stands and clips
The other thing you will want to consider is that if you are going to OWN all this stuff, you will want to have a sound person there responsible for it's upkeep and safety. If you just have it there and let bands use it, it *will* get trashed and things *will* get lost.
Some things to avoid:
Behringer products. Not reliable.
Digital Reference microphones. Made by Audio Technica, but they are very cheaply constructed.
Kustom monitors.
If you stick to QSC amps, Yamaha / JBL tops and monitors, Yamaha / Mackie / Allen and Heath boards and DBX eq's you should be good to go.
5/11/2008 12:39:08 PM
thanks so far the mics are shure sm58s everyone says to go for those the speaker im going with juices advice thank you
so now what about a mixer what brand how many channels ect
5/11/2008 12:44:40 PM
thanks demo you answered before i could type that
5/11/2008 12:51:25 PM
Mixers: allen & heath, soundcraft, mackie is ok. Atleast 16 xlr channels
5/11/2008 1:06:26 PM
my thought was to provide the top speakers so i can mount them to the ceiling up out of the way a sound mixer and 3-4 mics so they could be used for karaoke open mic night and by the bands
and i am scott just to let yas know
5/11/2008 1:29:52 PM

It's a good idea to get both the Shure Sm58 and Sm57. They are bascially the same mic but have a different curve response. Higher range singers usually lean towards the SM 57 and deeper vocals tend to lean towards the 58. Also 57's will pretty much handle any speaker amp setup and some drums, mostly toms and snare.
There are many ways to approach the mixing requirements.
A powered mixer is one way or a mixer and a powered Sub that will also double as your top speaker power amps and a separate mixer.
If your goal is just to provide a simple setup for small acts not requiring much and still let larger bands bring in their own stuff them a powered mixer will do just fine. Even a rack mount. Just about anything Mackie should suffice.
If you want a full setup for any band I would follow Hundreds advice and use a dedicated sound guy to run it because there are too many things that can go wrong and despite how long a musician has been playing very few musicians by comparison know how to operate an involved sound system.
An inexperienced person fooling around with stuff they shouldn't could not just blow your system up but can make you liable for any injuries caused to your patrons as a result of it.
Keep your setup as simple as possible especially starting out if you plan to let other people use it. A graphic EQ is important as well.
Build as you go if you must.
5/11/2008 1:43:47 PM
Karaoke? You can get a way with a 12 channel board with 4 XLR inputs for mics and the rest Stereo channel inputs. Almost anything will work for Karaoke. Even a Behringer mixer can't make it sound any worse in many cases. :-)
5/11/2008 1:49:09 PM
I suggest checking out
audioeast.com they have packages available for PA systems from small to large. They won't rip you off or give you bad advice or crappy products. They are located in Lowell. They also offer short and long term rentals and leases with the option to buy. Very affordable. Service plans too!
5/11/2008 4:31:35 PM
What about monitors, stands, cables, and the all important, - who's gonna run it...??? There's more to good sound than just having equipment.
Choose wisely grasshopper....
5/12/2008 1:15:42 AM
Hi Linda, I think its great that you want to invest in a PA but honestly I have to ask why? Are you planning to have a Sound person run and maintain all of this equipment? Different bands having their way with your expensive equipment can lead to trouble. Stuff will get broken, dropped, spilled on, ect.
Most bands will have their own PA anyway.
5/12/2008 8:25:11 AM
linda,,,,,,get 2 speakers and a power amp. put them in the corners. small rugged ones. these are for your karaoke and open mike nites. let the bands bring in their own stuff. they have their own requirements which u probably could'nt fulfill anyway with yur new system.
2 little ev(non powered)speakers. 1 small power amp to fix your problem! stay away from the whole setup. you will never get yur money back after it is demolished!
5/12/2008 9:04:18 AM

The two places that I can recall that "provided" a sound-system WITHOUT a sound guy... Dick's Last Resort (That monolith on the stage) and at The Burren.
Honestly... the slight benefit of not having to bring PA gear was/is almost always overshadowed by; not knowing if the gear will work this week, did some other band mess-up the routing...? are all the cables good...? will the monitors work this week...? Why isn't XXXXX working this time...? Arriving to find broken faders, missing knobs, a blown power amp, a missing monitor, etc...
You get the idea. As good and nice of people that may be in bands... there's always a small faction of people that won't "respect" the gear as if it were theirs and things will break and deteriorate pretty quickly if the gear is not monitored closely.
What I've resigned to doing at the Burren: We still bring OUR PA, and I run all the lines into MY powered PA/Mixer and sit our mains on TOP of the Burren's mains... but I then run an output from our PA into ONE channel of the Burren's board and set it to "Unity". I can now control the sound from where I normally do - right beside me... but I can still utilize the system that's in-place.
99.9% of the time, I would rather run our OWN gear... or if a club provides a system, to have SOMEONE ELSE run it.
Just *MY* opinion.
5/12/2008 9:08:31 AM
u nailed it,,guy!
5/12/2008 9:12:24 AM
Have the bands at least bring their own microphones. That way your's won't get destroyed or stolen.
5/12/2008 9:26:42 AM
<--- germ-o-phobe. Would ALWAYS use my own mic. Never a "communal" mic.
5/12/2008 9:33:52 AM
my main idea was to get back the space that the 2 speakers on stands take up by mounting my own in the corners from the ceiling
5/12/2008 9:39:25 AM
yes,,linda,, get them up on high and have the bands bring their own stuff. what are u using now to power the 2 speakers that are on the stands??????? simply get mounting brackets and move the power amp. problem solved and u save all yur money! stay away from your idea!
5/12/2008 10:12:48 AM

The aforementioned information from all these LR's is so true.
There is a common response here:
House Eqt/House sound engineer.
OR Let the Bands BRING and RUN their own eqt and sound. PREVENT loss or distruction of the House System. (99% of the time not intentional by ANY Band and there is no recovery responsibility protocol)
Cool to have a Karaoke system....but again..have a pro Karaoke DJ .
Mics are usually not even in the thought process of a "House System" as it is just too icky ! LOL!
SURE Drum Mic Kits are fine or some directs for the drum kits...but AGAIN....Mics have legs.
Every Band has its own "sound" or "mix".
Save yourself the headaches. I think a lot of clubs think that by supplying a house system that they can pay the Bands less money (I am sure I just stepped into some deep doo-doo here)
So, bottom line.....House Sound make sure you have a consistant House Sound Engineer to go with the program.
Bands will bring their own Mics. (and stands if they prefer !)
At LEAST 3 monitors.
One more thing....I am no expert, but...I am not sure how well hanging speakers in the corner of the rooms' ceilings will sound.
Anyone?
5/12/2008 10:25:20 AM
lisa,,,i think she just wants a decent sound system for her karaoke nites and open mike nite. a 1000 system would be ok for that. just basic stuff so she can host her off nites. it sounds like she needs room,,that's why she wants to mount.
y'know,,to have monitors,,mic stands,cables,,sound guy,,,,is a big undertaking. i doubt these places have the money for this. bring yur own equipment. keep it simple.
5/12/2008 11:05:48 AM
yes stirr please wipe your feet im not trying to beat anyone out of money i want a pa system for reasons ive stated i planned to get a small setup then thought if im going to have it maybe i should upgrade so the bands could use it as well now i see thats a bad idea thank you all for your advice
5/12/2008 11:17:47 AM
The guy that ran sound at The Attic in Newton had the PA tweaked for the room. He wouldn't let bands use their own microphones, but he would take the screens off of the microphones and scrub them with a toothbrush and antiseptic before each band played. If you have a good soundman to run the PA, it's a particularly viable option, as all the bands should sound fairly good and at an appropriate level. Letting bands run sound is sometimes a clusterfuck, and allowing them to not have to worry about it will afford them the luxury of worrying about the music and the entertainment portion. A win-win all around.
I'm not sure about the room, though. If it's a small room, there might be no reason for a PA for instruments. If it's a small room, the PA is only needed for vocals, and a soundman is not likely to be needed.
5/12/2008 11:27:56 AM

"Every Band has its own "sound" or "mix".
Save yourself the headaches. I think a lot of clubs think that by supplying a house system that they can pay the Bands less money (I am sure I just stepped into some deep doo-doo here)"
--------------------
Not all bands have good sounding equipment I hate to say.
If floor space is a problem then I'm guessing your not talking about needing a wall of sound which some bands think they can't live without.
I hate bands that bring in equipment with longthrow horns for a small room. Unless I need my head ripped off when I get up and walk across the speakers.
No offense but I don't know what kind of bands you hire to begin with. There are bands that have been around for a while and have enough equipment to bring just what they need and nothing more. Then there are bands that rally all the equipment from all the band members and there is no telling what that will entail not to mention nothing matching.
I'm thinking perhaps you are looking for something decent to have available for simpler things like smaller acts for the off nights such as karaoke and acoustic acts. Having a system that can handle that is a good idea IMO. It would even be better if that setup could aslo be used as a bands monitor system if nothing else. Perhaps have them mounted so they could swivel back towards the bands. Dick's Last Resort had ceiling mounted monitors and I kind of liked that personally.
I think it's a good idea to at least have something even if it doesn't fit every need. It will fit some.
I personally do not like moving gear If I don't have to.
Unless it's crap.
Keep your mics and cables kept like you do pool balls if you have to. Check them out if they are needed and make sure they are returned at the end of the night. Most pro's will use their own mics if they are being paid anyways. Karaoke and open mics is where you will use them most to the general public.
I personally bring my own mic even when I go to open mics.
Because I practically make out with my mic and I don't like making out with something that everybody else is making out with. :-)
5/12/2008 11:39:20 AM
thanks juice finally someone that understands what ive been talking about
5/13/2008 8:56:50 AM
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