Amy Winehouse and the "retro" sound discussion
youtube.com/watch?v=ld5sahxoj...youtube.com/watch?v=hfvm5pvtw...Do you like the trend/movement toward (or back to) the old/analog sounds? The horns etc.?
Her sound?
The music?
Personality, appearance, and drug use aside.
Is this retro movement a good thing, or a regressive and cynical money making trick?
Can you name some other artists currently mining these classic old gem sounds?
2/28/2008 10:18:59 AM
I'll be back, it's the 10:00 diaper change and feeding.
2/28/2008 10:20:44 AM
"or a regressive and cynical money making trick?"
Would you expect anything less from the music industry?
I haven't taken the time to check her out honestly. But I like the idea of making new what was once old. I'm going on a trip for work and I'll have free time so I'll check her out in a week or so.
2/28/2008 10:28:40 AM
I don't think its a tool that's been too readily available in a recognizable way- not that much retro out there-
I think it's the white stripes that have a tune out now with a real Black Sabbath/old Rush (working man) type of riff to it- I seriously thought it was Sabbath when I first heard it...
I think it's really 'embracing' the old sh*t you're influenced by and not trying to make it sound like you're trying to put a 'new spin' on it
2/28/2008 10:36:52 AM
and I only know the re-hab song, but I like it
I think I understand the concept we're talking about tho
2/28/2008 10:37:49 AM
I don't think it's a movement at all. But that sound certainly pops back into the charts every couple of years. More cyclical than cynical. Remember Outkast? they had a couple of tunes with a somewhat retro sound. There are others too. It just happens. As for AW, I don't think she has the staying power of say a Mariah Carey. Without another hit like rehab, she'll be gone pretty quick.
2/28/2008 10:38:31 AM
( sets a bear trap and will come back to check it later)
I just know that whatever I say from this point on will get cut into chunks, twisted around and thrown back at me, but what the hell?
Here goes.
Personality, appearance, and drug use aside?
That's what every one of her songs seems to be about:
Mostly about her personality, appearance, and drug use.
It doesn't sound very retro to me either.
I'll admit it. I don't like what she represents. Not one bit. I'm dealing on a daily basis with friends and family who have fought crack and heroin addictions.
I know the heartbreak it brings to entire families, and so excuse me for not thinking it's cute.
The fact that she is achieving great success as a poster child for negativity is something I just can't ignore.
Go ahead, say what you will.
I don't think she's cool at all.
2/28/2008 10:55:29 AM
Well, I have to say.
I never commented on the Amy Winehouse stuff on past threads because I never listened enough to make a comment.
Yeah man, MoTown and Stax all the way!
Plus, I may be alone on this.......is it me, or is there something bangable about her? Reminds me of Gina Gershon!
2/28/2008 11:01:31 AM
No bear trap, I thought we could discuss the music. Never mind.
2/28/2008 11:01:40 AM
Ken relax
2/28/2008 11:02:21 AM
She's gonna make the baritone sax "hip" again!
2/28/2008 11:03:09 AM
Yeah, that wasn't in line with what was proposed, so......
Lenny Kravitz was another one who took retro and brought it back to the forefront. Winehouse doesn't do it for me--I honestly don't dig her voice
2/28/2008 11:03:38 AM
I'd do her
2/28/2008 11:03:59 AM
She is only bangable if you are into $15 prostitutes and contracting HIV. She's friggin' gross, JZ
2/28/2008 11:06:10 AM
As far as the lyric content..........I think it's HILARIOUS!!!
I'm wondering if the intent was to make a comical song out of her "problem" and a producer or music arranger came up with the idea with the retro-soul vibe.
It's a FUN song!
2/28/2008 11:06:18 AM
I wouldn't say she's gross.
I like the arrangements and the music more than her voice, but she's definatley got soul, not forced, it's obviously natural.
2/28/2008 11:08:02 AM
"It sounds more like hip-hop than retro soul to me," Ken said while loosening his tie, sprawling on the bear-skin rug, reclining and relaxing completely.
Exhaling slowly before the roaring fire, in a soft spoken manner he added, "I also find her skeevishly repulsive."
2/28/2008 11:11:09 AM
I do love that song Barb, and I think it's arguable that in some ways, that song influenced a lot of the "retro queens" now.
2/28/2008 11:18:00 AM
Didn't hip-hop come from soul?
2/28/2008 11:18:34 AM
I don't hear the hip-hop Kennium. I've heard some hip hop that has used some of those old grooves, but they just got it from the same source she did in my opinion. Digable Planets comes to mind.
2/28/2008 11:19:23 AM
Bette Middler does a nice version of These Shoes. She did it first I believe.
How did Christy die?
2/28/2008 11:19:36 AM
Jim, Hip-Hop is just soul with more math in it.
2/28/2008 11:20:41 AM
Well done-
and who in the music industry short of Judy Garland doesn't have skeevish qualities?
2/28/2008 11:20:43 AM
But back to the other thing...
From a Zen-like restful state of peaceful repose, Ken then whispered, "Her bee-hive hairdo goes well with her constant buzz."
2/28/2008 11:21:26 AM
Bette Midler-
touche
I mean bangable
although I kind of think Bette Midler is hot too
2/28/2008 11:21:48 AM
This Corrine Baily Rae song from last year is part of this movement to me.
youtube.com/watch?v=ovnk_vdqy...Interestingly, I think most of it is coming from England.
2/28/2008 11:22:21 AM
No body has called me Walter Mathau yet for not liking Amy Winehouse.
Come ON! Get on the ball you guys!
2/28/2008 11:23:06 AM
Now Now, my post wasn't intended for sarcasm, I was asking a logical question.
Am I wrong to assume that hip-hop grooves are directly related to the 60's soul grooves? 16th shuffles, etc.. I thought we were gonna talk music here!
2/28/2008 11:24:04 AM
We were trying from the start Jim
2/28/2008 11:25:08 AM
Would that version of "In My Shoes" be:
a. Bossa Nova
b. Rhumba
c. Samba
d. Salsa
2/28/2008 11:25:42 AM
Sorry, "These Shoes"
2/28/2008 11:26:11 AM
and chippa's right about the White Stripes kind of spearheading this movement on the hard rock side of it.
2/28/2008 11:26:14 AM
I think it depends where you get your hiphop-
it's sort of all over the place-
Tone Loc
Busta Rhymes
Who ever did 'Waterfalls' there
they rip their beats off everywhere
2/28/2008 11:26:54 AM
I am talking music.
(in a very laid back manner, with my eyes half closed)
It is my belief that hip-hop is a step backward for soul music.
It may not be a popular opinion, but I have a right to it.
2/28/2008 11:27:15 AM
It's more Afro-Cuban than Brazillian, so that would rule out a Bossa.
2/28/2008 11:27:42 AM
CPA, I'm not suggesting she has the staying power of a Mariah or anything, I just feel I've seen this trend lately, and I like it!
But right from the start, there is a cynical side of me that thinks maybe they're just rehashing to sell records, but from what I've heard about most of them, it's just their love for the old sounds and their getting sick of the new sounds.
2/28/2008 11:28:16 AM
I'd rather not get into the Hip Hop debate, because I don't believe this IS hip hop. It's got all the tell tale sounds of old soul, so I'll call it retro soul (new soul being something completely different though progressive)
2/28/2008 11:30:28 AM
I'd call that Anglo-Cuban JZ :-)
2/28/2008 11:32:03 AM
I have to admit. I like the sound of her band. I like the grooves they set up.
I will have to admit that I'm hung up on HER, and I just can't get over that whole image thing.
I know it sells lot's of records. I just hope it doesn't sell lot's of crack.
2/28/2008 11:32:22 AM
Raul Castro would be happy with you.
2/28/2008 11:33:42 AM
That's a separate discussion that I'd gladly take part in on a thread dedicated to it. Honestly.
Drugs in the music industry has a long history, and some would say the two have always been inseparable, bit I'd rather we stick to the music here.
2/28/2008 11:34:45 AM
Especially since we live in a time where 'grooves' seem to be thinning out
2/28/2008 11:34:59 AM
*but
2/28/2008 11:35:16 AM
I did see this, and it made me laugh.
Rolling Stones guitarist Keith Richards has offered some friendly advice to fellow musician Amy Winehouse.
Asked at the Berlin International Film Festival - where he’s promoting new Martin Scorsese Rolling Stones documentary ‘Shine A Light’ – whether he had advice for Amy and her battle with drugs, Richards answered, "She should get her act together.”
The veteran rocker – no stranger to addictive substances himself – then helpfully added, “Apart from that, I have got nothing to say to the bitch."
Winehouse checked out of a two week stint in rehab on Friday in order to prepare for her live-via-satellite performance on tonight’s Grammys, where she’s up for six gongs.
2/28/2008 11:36:11 AM
When Amy Winehouse toured America, she chose Bosco Mann and the Dap-Kings to back her. An incredibly great choice as they're on the "cutting edge" of analog recording and retro soul sounds. Making their name backing Sharon Jones and making lots of cool records (vinyl ones!) and recording strictly to tape in THIS age.
I think Amy used them on some of her record too.
daptonerecords.com/sharonjone...
2/28/2008 11:38:00 AM
Well the production is excellent and the band sounds great. There's no doubt about it.
2/28/2008 11:39:16 AM
Again, this is a thread about her music, and the retro movement, if there is one.
Please, just make a separate thread about her drug use, or drug use in general.
Or a whole thread about advice from Keef about cleaning up.
2/28/2008 11:39:40 AM
Afro-Cuban vs. Anglo-Cuban?
I'd be up for that.
I have a Colombian percussionist, a Cuban pianist, and Oscar Stagnaro in my corner.
2/28/2008 11:40:25 AM
Jen Kearney's band could fit into this new trend thing.
I'd like to see THEM get a Grammy.
2/28/2008 11:41:17 AM
Did anyone look at/listen to that Corrine Bailey Rae tune?
When she performed it live at the British Grammys, it was incredible. A great performance.
2/28/2008 11:41:34 AM
Now KEN, that's the smartest thing you've said on this thread!
2/28/2008 11:42:32 AM
And Carl, I'll give you "Anglo-Afro-Cuban", that definately holds water.
2/28/2008 11:43:19 AM
Absolutely, Jen's been on the cutting edge of this trend right from the start! I know SHE doesn't do it for the commercial value, so I tend to give other artists the benefit of the doubt. (that's in reference to the whole ""or a regressive and cynical money making trick?" aspect I mentioned at the start.
2/28/2008 11:43:23 AM
She reminds me of early Cher...very skankalicious.
2/28/2008 11:43:56 AM
Not Jen of course....Amy Winohouse
2/28/2008 11:44:49 AM
But the only thing the "Anglo's" offered was the use of drumsticks.
2/28/2008 11:44:50 AM
Yeah, I heard that, and it was good.
I also like the track she did on Herbie Hancock's new album, which also won a Grammy Award the same night Amy won.
She did a nice version of Joni Mitchell's "River."
I think it's the best song on the album.
2/28/2008 11:44:58 AM
Corrine Bailey that is...
2/28/2008 11:46:27 AM
My guess is Amy Winehouse is lyrically a product of this world. At least she's chosen the sound of an earlier world.
Honestly is SO important in music, especially lyric, and if that's who she is, then unfortunately, any other lyric would be dishonest. It will be interesting to see (if she has a prolonged career) if she grows lyrically, or if she just holds on to what worked originally. Or if she drops the retro sound for a more current thing. Ala Madonna and others who change with the times to stay on top.
2/28/2008 11:47:16 AM
Or if she dies.
2/28/2008 11:48:13 AM
* honesty, not honestly
2/28/2008 11:48:20 AM
She has HIV? What mean how you say "bangable". This is a freakin bear trap. I'm backing away.
2/28/2008 11:48:25 AM
Keith Richards saying "the bitch should get her act together" is like Jeffrey Dahmer saying he's a germaphobe.
2/28/2008 11:49:06 AM
Or at middle age she could fall to her knees and pray to God to leave drugs behind and become a beacon of light, a la Eric Clapton.
2/28/2008 11:49:51 AM
Yes, or if she dies, and then becomes a rock and roll martyr that people revere for "keeping it real" like they do Cobain.
2/28/2008 11:50:08 AM
Or like Richard Gere's gerbil complaining about the smell of his habit trail.
2/28/2008 11:50:46 AM
Yeah but didn't he throw his kid out the window?
2/28/2008 11:50:57 AM
I never really got Cobain.
Maybe it's for the same reasons.
2/28/2008 11:51:42 AM
Yeah, he did Matt. He threw his own kid out the fucking window. You're right.
2/28/2008 11:51:46 AM
Not unfunny!
2/28/2008 11:51:58 AM
And then didn't he write a song about throwing his kid out the window? I would've just named it "I just threw my kid out the window"
2/28/2008 11:53:40 AM
Anyways, nice chatting with you guys again. Thanks for not beating up the old man today.
I have to go shovel snow now and wish that I was back in South Carolina.
2/28/2008 11:53:51 AM
by the way, I'm pretty sure Bette Midler covered Kirsty's version of "In These Shoes"
2/28/2008 11:54:07 AM
Without reading all of these posts.....music should just be music, regardless of how it was recorded. Some of it will be good, some of it won't. I personally like analog recordings with real horn sections but there's some stuff recorded digitally that I like also.
The idea that anything is regressive or such because it fails to move "the art" forward I believe is ridiculous. It's all been done now. If someone else can figure out something new to do with the same 12 notes we all work with, good luck!
2/28/2008 11:54:33 AM
Amy Winehouse shovels snow into her nose.
2/28/2008 11:55:05 AM
I have it on good authority that Kurt Cobain never went to Revere. Ever.
2/28/2008 11:55:27 AM
Yup. When the royalties for your platinum record come rolling in about the tragedy of split ends and tangles in long manly hair, maybe you'll understand why he did it.
2/28/2008 11:55:30 AM
I'm making pasta with them.
2/28/2008 11:55:43 AM
Pitch Bend!!!!
2/28/2008 11:56:32 AM
his long mangly curls? What kind of sauce?
2/28/2008 11:57:01 AM
Rockbass said: "If someone else can figure out something new to do with the same 12 notes we all work with, good luck!"
I'm making pasta with them.
2/28/2008 11:58:24 AM
Maybe the key is to invent new notes. I know I invent a few new ones every weekend.
2/28/2008 11:59:45 AM
Matt Fetters' idea of retro is wearing dirty socks.
2/28/2008 12:00:14 PM
huh?
2/28/2008 12:04:46 PM
What I like best about the retro style (he said, in a vain effort to put the thread back on track) is the arrangements.
Steve Kelly and I just did our Hits of the 70s night, and in preparing for it, I listened to a lot of 70s music obviously, and even the most lame ass poppy piece of poop then (though I love them) like "Undercover Angel" for instance, is incredibly well arranged, performed, and recorded. It's never boring with one verse sounding just like another. Lines come in and out that take the music to the next section. there are frequently half verses, or codas, and key changes that aren't predictable.
This retro "movement" if it is that, uses many of these things as well as different instrumentation and playing styles.
2/28/2008 12:04:55 PM
I never 'got' cobain either, but man there were people who went absolutely apesh*t over him for a while-
now even the reverence has dwindled-
I don't 'feel' like Kurt Cobain is this giant icon anymore in the public eye-
maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it's related in some way to the success (and haul-assishness) of the foo-fighters
talk about an under-utilized talent playing drums for that band
2/28/2008 12:06:55 PM
yet they leave SPACE! which is probably the most different thing about the modern approach from the old ways.
You can hear the individual instruments, unlike the digital mish mosh and pad effect keyboards in most new pop music.
2/28/2008 12:07:19 PM
and I think the foos go kind of retro too- especially intheir latest effoprt- there's one song that has a sort of CSNY-meets Scorpions feel to it
2/28/2008 12:08:20 PM
The theme on America Idol last night (ok, don't shoot me) was 70's music and my husband and I were commenting on just that, when song arrangements were more intricate and unpredictable. The idol contestants were only allowed to sing one verse from a song and we were saying how hard it must have been to pull just a piece of one of those songs out to present like that.
2/28/2008 12:08:25 PM
I have to admit that I mostly work with just 5 notes :-)
2/28/2008 12:08:57 PM
I heart Dave Groh.
2/28/2008 12:09:20 PM
Did you hear his duo with Will Ferell?
2/28/2008 12:10:05 PM
One of the things I think that is missing in current production tools and is present in retro recordings is
-ready?-
Dynamics. Or more accurately, the use of compression and mastering to make every single recording as hot as possble. That annoys me like crazy. When you do that, it really sucks the breathing room right out of the recording.
2/28/2008 12:14:02 PM
$100 for a demo is quite retro too!
2/28/2008 12:16:47 PM
How bout retrograde ejaculation? Does that count?
2/28/2008 12:18:01 PM
Sorry . wrong thread. I'm looking for the medical thread.
2/28/2008 12:18:34 PM
On the other hand, ya ever try to listen to a very dynamically diverse classical piece in the car?
I think that trend is mainly a product of the way we listen to music these days.
It's not like the rich guy on the leather chair in the memorex commercial anymore.
I think this retro stuff comes closer to a more varied use of dynamics through arrangement. Everything might still be at a hot level, but there is less abuse of the ear when on the third verse it breaks down to just drums and horn hits or something like that.
2/28/2008 12:21:44 PM
Stunt - Agreed, and that slope has been slippery since the late '80s, early '90s... more noticeably once Compact Discs started becoming popular - Not sure if it was coincidental or if it played a part in it at all.
Ever since the Mid-'90s... the amount of headroom has been practically obliterated by overcompression and limiting.
I am just as guilty of doing it.
If I put-in a Rush CD recorded from the '70s or '80s... like Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures or Signals... there's an ENORMOUS range of dynamics... even within one track.
Listen to La Villa Strangiato... you need to keep adjusting your volume... must crank the intro to hear it... but then you need to back-off as the dynamics build... and once the song kicks-in full force, you need to dial it back more... but then the quiet middle parts come and you need to crank the volume again.
Now - this is where I am torn.
Given the way the MAJORITY of people now listen to their music... in their cars, working-out at the gym/excercising, walking around town or commuting, etc...
There's generally a high noise floor that is NOT conducive to listening to music with a wide dynamic range.
It's actually ANNOYING for me to have to constantly adjust my car's stereo volume NUMEROUS TIMES within (for example) La Villa Strangiato, in order to make each passage of the song listenable.
So, PART of me LIKES the overall effect of leveling-out the playback volume of music, while retaining the PERFORMANCE dynamics.
Know what I mean...?
2/28/2008 12:24:09 PM
I really think the ear fatigue brought on by modern recording styles has more to do with arrangement than level.
No one is more frustrated than I am about the "level wars" though, my home made CD is frequently much softer than anything new I put on the CD carousel, and so I always have to "ride the faders" for my CD. :-(
2/28/2008 12:24:11 PM
ACME Music Trio and I are simpatico here!
2/28/2008 12:25:43 PM
i dont think retro is the good term to use. its too loaded.
i personally love big fat warm tones in my music. what ever it is that made late period beatles records sound they way they do is how i want to sound when i record, regardless of the type of music, instrumentation etc.
she's got that vibe, as do the white stripes. lenny kravits, who i love, sorta has it but, he really has the retro songs moreso, than the retro 'vibe' and warmth.
i think its more about micing, compression, eq and mixing, and has nothing to do with tape/analog vs digital.
2/28/2008 12:29:20 PM
Captain - I agree with your point too.
The music itself can be a sonic-mess, filling-up every corner of the frequency spectrum and having no dynamics... just "on-TEN" the whole time. That has nothing to do with levels, but good songwriting, pre-production & production.
I would bet that a good mastering facility COULD take Rush's La Villa Strangiato and compress the volume dynamics without completely defeating the PERFORMANCE dynamics - and resulting with a track that is more volume-friendly for the way we listen to music today.
How many people do YOU know still have a dedicated "listening room" for music, with optimal placement and stereo imaging... blah blah blah...?
No. Most people copy it to their iPod and head out the door. Myself included.
2/28/2008 12:31:53 PM
Yeah, I recognize the drawbacks to a term like "retro" but anything else seems, in the political parlance, too nuanced.
I think you're right about micing, compression, eq, and mixing.
I know there are many who think it's all in the tape. But I don't think I hear that.
2/28/2008 12:32:36 PM
to me a retro song recorded with a modern sound is less interesting than a modern song recored with a retro sound.
can ya dig it?
2/28/2008 12:57:16 PM
I knew that you could.
Is using this "retro" sound we all talk about supposed to be some "celebration" or "homage" to the artists and producers of 35 -40 years ago, or is just a BETTER way to record and capture the music?
2/28/2008 1:00:27 PM
Why can't horn lines and a Fender Rhodes or a celeste be useful tools for a recording rather than "Retro instruments"? If the intent is to 're-create" then I understand. Then again, isn't every thing a re-creation of something already created?
I mean, the piano has been around since the 18th century, it's never considered "retro".
2/28/2008 1:05:59 PM
Scott n Carl,
I am with you completely. I have to take my demo recordings and wash them into compression and mastering formulas to make the CD "sound" like record company CD's (cause that is what the band wants).
I would love to get a nice 2" machine and record to it and A/B it with the hard disk recorder. Raw recording, no compression or anything else.
Eh, who am I kidding? I ain't got that kind of dough.
2/28/2008 1:08:53 PM
Not to mention that "retro" is a nebulous and vague term that can mean many things to many people.
To say something sounds "retro" could be a commentary on the style of the writing, the music, the performance, the recording gear used, the production style, the production QUALITY or a combination or two-or-more of these things with so many permutations.
What makes something retro...? It just seems like a "VERY" subjective term.
2/28/2008 1:10:09 PM
Hey Marc, any word on March 9th?
2/28/2008 1:10:31 PM
Marc - To battle the fight against over-all "mix compression", I have recently adopted the following strategy which has been working very nicely:
Up until recently, I would mix my projects where every channel or instrument would get routed directly to the main-out channel, on-which I used to use varying amounts of compression.
NOW...
I have adopted a practice of utilizing the infinite amount of sub-groups and routing to basically create groups of things to compress individually...
So... for example:
- Sub mix all drum tracks (kick, snare, etc.) to a stereo bus. Keep individual TRACK limiting or compression intact, but give the stereo sub a more subtle... TAILORED compression for the drums.
- Sub mix all similar guitar tracks to a stereo bus - same as above, giving the whole "guitar bank stereo mix it's own light compression...
- Vocals... same.
- Keys... same.
All of those sub-mixes then get routed to the main outs where I ONLY apply protective "Limiting" of the signal.
So-far, it's been SOUNDING much better... AND, it makes it easier to just "Bring the drums up" or "lower the guitars" when they're all sub-grouped.
I know - I'm sure that's FAR from news to a lot of more experienced engineers... I am a self-taught noob that's still learning every day.
2/28/2008 1:17:47 PM
Milhouse, this is too civil and informative...can you try to provoke an argument or something?
2/28/2008 1:19:30 PM
i think retro is not a better way to record - TAPE SUCKS.
but recording with that sound, IS better. you dont need tape to get it. and hell yeah, i love a fender rhodes sound.
2/28/2008 1:20:35 PM
Scott,
I use subgroups too. I tend to NOT use any compression anywhere other than when vocal tracks are being laid down.
Occasionally I'll compress the kick or bass going in, but I really try hard to leave it all alone. Plus I don't know what any of those knobs mean anyway.
Once the two track is mixed, then I'll use a compression/eq/mastering present that I have (I have a about 10 of them) but find one that works and tweak it.
After all, it IS $100 demo.
Ribbon mic? Sure! Here is a blue ribbon you can put on the mic, or a nice sparkly red one.
2/28/2008 1:25:00 PM
Don't get too hung up on word retro.
It's just a conversational lubricant.
For the sake of this discussion, it means all those things mentioned:
"writing, the music, the performance, the recording gear used, the production stylewriting," etc.
2/28/2008 1:37:16 PM
well divde the sound up from the songwriting.
you have too. other wise you could just say "amy whinehouse and music sound"
are you worrieid about pissing off kennuim? take a public stand and let the chippas fall where they may.
2/28/2008 1:40:17 PM
Wha?!?!?!
2/28/2008 1:41:28 PM
Yeah. What he said.
2/28/2008 1:47:16 PM
FIGHT!
2/28/2008 1:52:33 PM
Only if Carl puts on his gladiator outfit.
2/28/2008 1:58:47 PM
he can't find his codpiece.
2/28/2008 2:03:11 PM
Who is Amy Winehouse?
2/28/2008 2:16:33 PM
That Sara Bareilles chick has a neat single.
2/28/2008 2:17:41 PM
"I'm not gonna write you a love song bitch" etc.. etc. cool tune.
2/28/2008 2:18:48 PM
her band is good, she sucks.
2/28/2008 2:43:49 PM
I hadn't listened at all to Amy Winehouse before today so my only opinion of her was she's a junkie. I listened to her two albums today and I have to say that I Luf huh.
She reminds me a bit of Billie Holiday. But the songs, arrangements and performances are all outstanding. I'm a fan now.
2/28/2008 3:13:59 PM
i always hear people saying that there is no sound difference between analog and digital recordings, which i guess could be true but i have never heard any record recorded digitally that has that old analog sound. if it was something that could be done i would imagine that people would be doing it all the time. but whenever you hear something that has that "retro" sound it was recorded on tape. does anyone have an example of a digital recording that has that old analog sound? i'd be interested in hearing it.
2/28/2008 3:39:47 PM
I'd love it if there was a website or something that A/B'd recordings like that.
2/28/2008 3:45:00 PM
as if you could tell LISTENING TO COMPRESSED mp3S ON THE INTERNET THROUGH CRAPPY IPOD EARBUDS.
there are thousands if not millions of analog tape recordings that dont have the 'mythical' analog je ne sais quoi.
'splain that melvern.
2/28/2008 3:53:41 PM
i think in order to do a true A/B test you would have to record the same song with the same players and the same instruments, in the same room etc on both mediums. i don't think it can be denied that the 2 mediums have different sound qualities. whether or not one is better than the other is in the ear of the beholder. all the equipment and gizmos are really just different colors in your pallette. how they are used is what makes a great recording. at least that's my opinion. to get back on track I like the "retro" stuff that Amy Winehouse is doing. i don't LOVE it, but i like it. I don't think the "retro' thing ever goes away. Sha-Na-Na was doing it in the 60's. Some people just like nostalgia. Now the 80's is considered "retro" which sucks because the 80's was (in my opinion) the worst era of recorded music.
2/28/2008 3:54:05 PM
wait till this decade is out, ive been doing some recording that will make the 80's look like the baroque period.
2/28/2008 3:56:20 PM
give some examples of this Milhouse and then also give some examples of digital recordings that do have it. Again, i'm not saying one is better than the other, i'm just saying that they are different. I do all of my recording digitally because i don't have the time or money to do it to tape. i would if i could though.
2/28/2008 3:56:54 PM
Capts too busy lubricating things, like conversations! AW retro sound is certainly due to the arrangements and instrumentations and probably recorded digitally anyway!
What gives much of todays sounds that overkill feel is the over-use of compression. Most engineers (and bands) want mucho thump and SPL all the time. That just leaves no room at all for dynamics. Theres a lot fo that in live sound too. Why not let the compressors kick in at 0db? for a tune like La Villa, you really have to be in the right environment with no distractions to take advantage of
the cool dynamics there.
2/28/2008 3:59:00 PM
i bet most of the crappy music you hate from the 80s was recorded to tape, and doesn't sound like abbey road.
if you can't get a good sound out of the technology availble today, its because you are not as skilled at recording as the engineers that had to hook up enough 4-tracs to launch the apollo missions to get Sgt Peppers to work.
lets face it, any idiot that has a cheapo computer and can google 'crackz and warez' has 1000 times the recording power and -1000 times the engiering talent required to make a great album.
2/28/2008 4:00:20 PM
I'm not going to comment until I get that CD
2/28/2008 4:01:20 PM
Ding CPA exactly
2/28/2008 4:05:57 PM
Milhouse, I think you are missing the point. and you have still yet to provide examples of digital recordings that sound like an analog recording. i'm not saying they don't exist, i'm just saying that i've never heard one.
2/28/2008 4:06:23 PM
Are you guys suggesting that there's no difference? (Mil and CPA)
2/28/2008 4:09:41 PM
i am suggesting that you are trying to measure an atom with a yardstick.
2/28/2008 4:12:23 PM
between digi and anlog recording? Not me. Of course theres a difference, abeit subtle. but there are ways to mitigate that difference too.
2/28/2008 4:13:00 PM
I don't recall trying to measure anything. But doesn't that CD seem like an interesting listen?
2/28/2008 4:16:09 PM
Yes, so far I've heard 2 tunes off it. And like them both.
Don't know if I'll give up the $15 for a listen though.
2/28/2008 4:23:23 PM
capitan, the point is, the stuff in the control of the engineer, and what happens between mastering, and compression to get it on the radio, tv or mp3 has more of an affect than the difference between a high end tape or high end digital recording.
the sounds on amy winehouse records, the style of mics, the console strips, the compression, the reverb, the drum micingn and the instrumentation and mic placement to capture the instruments HAVE WAY MORE TO DO WITH HOW IT SOUNDS than if it was pro tools or 1/2 tape.
that one happend to be protools, apparently.
2/28/2008 4:27:38 PM
yabut, all other things being equal, many folks still complain about the harsh and steril quality of ones and zeros vs. the percieved softness and warmth of ferrite flakes on tape 8') Coincidentaly, lots of those same folks prefer tube amps to SS in thier playback systems.
2/28/2008 4:32:45 PM
true.
probably why people use analog & tube gear WITH thier digital recorders.
2/28/2008 4:35:43 PM
I think the only thing I'd add to any of this, is that it makes complete sense to use all the exact methods used by your heroes if you want to get closest to their sound. (easier if $ were no issue of course)
I was talking about the A/B CD by the way, not the Winehouse CD
2/28/2008 4:43:30 PM
I'm sure there's a difference between digital and analog recordings. But I'm equally convinced that unless you're a golden ears type working in a pristine environment, you're not going to hear them.
2/28/2008 4:47:44 PM
I'm dyin' to get that A/B CD so I can decide if I have a preference!
2/28/2008 4:52:21 PM
trying to get other people's sound is chasing windmills, unless you plan on steaing thier fingers and vocal chords as well.
2/28/2008 5:20:17 PM
well, to a certain degree you're correct, but if you want to get as close to something you should always... oh, hold on, what a dope I am, even trying to discuss this with you.
youtube.com/watch?v=temlv3rip...
2/28/2008 5:33:04 PM
I bet they don't use those new-fangled Variax guitars on Amy Winehouse's CD!
2/28/2008 5:34:29 PM
the message some are suggesting, is that you wouldn't know the difference if they did.
2/28/2008 5:40:49 PM
lol I know. That's why I said it, silly.
2/28/2008 5:41:52 PM
to put a crappy variax on the same level as a full featured high end digital studio is a bit of a stretch even for you internet bullies no?
2/28/2008 5:48:56 PM
I prefer Milhouse's earlier, funnier nonsense posts with chippa.
2/28/2008 5:51:20 PM
i have been trying to goad you into lashing out at Kennium for days now, and this is the best you can do???
2/28/2008 5:52:16 PM
besides, this is a muisc thread, and i take them DEADLY serious.
that and threads about chippa being gay.
2/28/2008 5:53:03 PM
Didn't you notice, the best way to piss off Kennium is to simply post an honest thread about something he doesn't like.
2/28/2008 5:54:53 PM
and racks
2/28/2008 5:54:59 PM
and, this is one of course, but i was hoping it would escalate.
2/28/2008 5:58:09 PM
The biggest irony of the whole Amy Winehouse thing, to me, is that if he is basing his dislike for her primarily on her drug-using lifestyle, when he was so enamored by the Eric Clapton autobiography, where Eric plainly and honestly illustrated how destructive his own lifestyle was for himself and for others well into middle age.
I know, I know, Amy Winehouse ain't Eric Clapton. But she is HARDLY the first recording artist to do drugs and sing about it.
She don't like, she don't like, she don't like...cocaine.
2/28/2008 6:00:48 PM
wow....
just wow.
2/28/2008 6:01:57 PM
I had hoped for more interesting discussion of Amy Winehouse's style, but at least the analog vs. digital portion yeilded that A/B CD that I'm very interested in.
2/28/2008 6:02:57 PM
It good good for a while, Capt. Nice work.
2/28/2008 6:04:31 PM
Please, by all means, start a thread about drugs in music, I'd probably even join in, but there were enough attempts to go there here.
2/28/2008 6:05:14 PM
If I were to, I'd be accused of bear trapping or something.
2/28/2008 6:06:31 PM
you should stop worrying about what people thing and just say what you feel.
its the internet. you can even make stuff up about other people, its cool. whatever goes man - its like the 60's and free love except its the 00's and its free manure.
2/28/2008 6:08:40 PM
But if it's recorded on a CD, that makes it digital 8')
2/28/2008 6:13:04 PM
Melvern has his whole music collection on 8 trac tape though...
iPod-8
